Cell site call backs?

[SKYNET156]

i monitor the 90 (my home pct) and i hear alot of the complaintant call backs come back to just a cell site?
i thought nypd could pin point cell locations like most police depts?

 

[Citywide173]

The phone that's making the call has to be up to date. It can be pinpointed to a location, but if the phone has no service (9-1-1 only), or is an older model, all you will get is the cell site, and maybe a direction (which way the antenna panel that received the signal is facing). If the person entering the call doesn't do their job right and confirm that the correct callback is entered, it's also quite possible that by using a function button that automatically transfers the ANI/ALI call data from the 9-1-1 system to the CAD system, the cell tower information will be entered instead of the caller's number. The technology is advancing, but nowhere near as fast as people think it is.

 

[SKYNET156]

its seems more than often that they say "cell site call back" and there is no further, so it makes me wonder how many calls just go ignored by the field units and RMP's

 

[w2lie]

all you will get is the cell site, and maybe a direction (which way the antenna panel that received the signal is facing).

That is true for Phase-I E911. All the PSAP will get is a Cell site common name, Cell Site address, and a direction of the receiving antenna of the cell site.

Phase-II E911 will give a location within "x" feet of the correct location. This is either done with GPS inside of the mobile, or triangulation based on what cell sites can hear you, and the time differential of the RF Path.

I used to test this as part of my job..

Here is a good article on Wikipedia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_911

 

[Citywide173]

Trust me, it still happens....I'm a 9-1-1 Operator (when they force me to go to dispatch), and have seen it first hand within the past two weeks.

 

[Citywide173]

its seems more than often that they say "cell site call back" and there is no further, so it makes me wonder how many calls just go ignored by the field units and RMP's

Usually, a callback to a cell phone will be useless anyway. The person calling felt that they just HAD to call, but they aren't willing to stick around until those responding arrive. There should be a mock up of a city block in the back of every cell phone store, similar to those police shooting ranges where the targets pop up and there's a mixture of good guys and bad guys-only it will have people that are sleeping on stairs and the like....if the person calls 9-1-1 for a non-emergency: NO PHONE FOR YOU!.

I have been known to enter the text "Drive-by cell caller" in calls where the person refuses to give their info or stay around long enough to direct the responding unit(s). It let's both the dispatcher and the responding crew know that if they don't find anything, the callback isn't going to be of much help. It helps to clear units a little faster, since those that don't leave their car to find out if an emergency truly exists, but assume one does, are usually wrong. It may just be the language used over the air, similar to some fire departments using the phrase "a pot of meat" to describe any type of burnt food on the stove, and indicate that the caller isn't present anymore.

 

[ff026]

i monitor the 90 (my home pct) and i hear alot of the complaintant call backs come back to just a cell site?
i thought nypd could pin point cell locations like most police depts?

Usually a land line call back comes to an address, where a sector can go and look for the original caller.
When you here a unit ask," where does the call back come to?" and central state " Cell site" it is to let the units in the filed know it comes back to a cell phone and the only ANI-ALI info that they are getting is from a cell site.

Field units often ask "where does the call back come to?" to see if there is anyone around the area of the originating call, like when a phone call is made from a pay phone. In the case of a cellular 911 call it makes it harder to check the area, because of the nature of cellular systems. Unfortunately "SPRINT" which is the NYPD's CAD does not translate the coordinates of the cell phone it just gives you the site where the call is coming into and the LAT - LONG. For anyone who has not see the SPRINT system it is essentially a monchrome screen sorta like an old DOS prompt and u have to use commands and function keys to get the unit information and status.

 

[Citywide173]

They're still using SPRINT? I thought they were the first with VESTA....at least that's the way Mangini sold it....

 

[SKYNET156]

So when the RMP's want a SPRINT number, is that like the case number given off the SPRINT system?

 

[FrankRaffa]

SPRINT is PD's CADS. Vesta is the abortion of a phone system in PSAC that doesn't work. Two separate issues.

The Sprint # is the sequential number of 911 calls entered into the system starting at midnight. Thus, Sprint number M14,201 would be the 14,201st 911 call entered that Monday.

 

[Citywide173]

Frank,

Thank you, It was confusing the way it was posted.

Vesta is capable of translating coordinates into a street address ( +/- how ever many feet they claim) via Orion Mapstar and making it available for export to a CAD system.....the CAD isn't capable of accepting this info? Believe me, I don't like it either, it could have been so much better and user friendly.

 

[PJH]

Long and short...

When a cell 911 comes in, there are many parts to what comes up on the screen.

The data is the same, but depending one the phone company, the fields may vary. Cell calls and landline calls can, will, and do trip up some operators when they see the information. Some operators are just clueless and don't look at the right places.

Since this is a message board, the formatting will be off:

Landline 911 call-

(718) 555-1212 PBX 06/26 18:00

SOMEONE'S BUSINESS

123 MAIN
ANYTOWN

CNF= UNC=
VERIZON

PD= XYZ PD
FD= XYX FD
AMB= ZXC EMS

Now, when you get a cell call, you will see something like this:

(212) 511-0400 WPH2 06/26 18:00

CLLR CLL 627C

123 Main Street CIRC 511-0400

ANYTOWN
42.1234556533 -72.32454325
MDN=(212) 123-4567
CNF=0000095 UNC=16
VZW

**************ASK CALLER FOR SPECIFIC EMERGENCY LOCATION****************

What happens is on landline calls, that very first number is the number which is calling. In the first example I put in a PBX system. Many PBX systems will only show the "main" number that the business uses, even though there may be many extentions or numbers assoicated with the main. Trips people up.

You also get address information, city or town etc.

On a cell call, the first number in that top line is the number of the CELL SITE. Each cell site has a phone number associated with it. This was also the number that PSAPs got before cell numbers were available. You get the carrier information, cell site location and sometimes what sector the call was heard from. Lower in the location information is where the MDM (cell number) is located and the lat/long. There is also a confiedence factor from the cell carrier in percentage and meters on how good the location given is accurate.

Depending on the 911 software vendor, how its interfaced with CAD, mapping etc, it can be really good or "eh". Some people see the cell site number and call that back and obviosuly that won't work.

It all comes down to how skilled the calltaker is and getting information from the caller.

Its really not hard..just people skills.

I know the above is kinda rambling, so I'll try to touch it up in the next day or two with good examples and screen shots if I can

 

[ff026]

PJH thats a great example, but when it gets typed into the SPRINT system it looks nothing like that. It goes in as one continuous line of information and the dispatcher has to dig out the pertinent information.

 

[Citywide173]

It all comes down to how skilled the calltaker is and getting information from the caller.

AMEN! Unfortunately, there are too many people mailing it in.

 

[PJH]

And thats the fault of:

1-CAD software developers
2-The customer

The ALI is pretty universal thoughout the US. On the screen it may be in a different place, but the fields are the same. All current (and actually the older legacy) 911 consoles that I have come across will output that data in a normal serial data format.

In short, its plug/play - all the software people have to do is say "911 field x goes to CAD field x"

Lazy customers promote medorocre software. Once you start to threathen that you will leave if they don't fix, you'll find out that they will find a way to get it to work.

An example of a department that had its game together did this-

Sat down with Verizon, Plant Equipment, Motorola, Intergraph and Zetron. When a 911 call came in, the 911 system pushed the location data to the CAD software. On dispatch, the CAD software talked to the Motorola Gold Elite console and automatically set off the dispatch tones to the correction fire station(s). If it was a different area, it did the same to a dedicated Zetron station alerting console. At the same time the CAD pushed the information out thru the data system to the firehouses and MDT's.

The equipment that most places have can actually a lot of stuff, but management either doesn't think that they need to use xyz or have no clue that they can do it.

 

[ff026]

PJH, have you ever seen the SPRINT system? it from the 60's!

 

[one11sgt]

Rumor is SPRINT we be a thing of the past by Jan 2012. New CAD system taking its place. There was just a major overhaul of the whole system that went into service this past week.

 

[tbendick]

They were suppose to go with intergraph and word if that's still the case

 

[garys]

AMEN! Unfortunately, there are too many people mailing it in.

And mailing it to the wrong address from what I've heard!

 

[one11sgt]

They were suppose to go with intergraph and word if that's still the case

Well after watching the video below and seeing how versatile, helpful and efficient the intergraph CAD is......it is my guess that the NYPD probably wont go with it. lol

http://www.intergraph.com/assets/zip/IngrCADwebcast4.wmv