Monroe Counties New Harris P25 System

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RF-Burns

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Just an update to this system. The last tower was built last week in Hilton. Per the Harris Rep I spoke with all the sites have been built and the first tower will go online next week over near MCC. That tower will go on for testing then the rest of them will come online shortly after.

Projection for the system to be up and running 100% will be Jan 2013 as many local government (DPW's) did not upgrade to narrowband and are waiting to switch to this system per the Harris Rep. Hamlin DPW being the big one per the rep.

Police and Fire he said is still projected for 2017 and not a minute earlier due to the smaller departments in the county who are still trying to secure financing for this system. I know the 4th Battalion is up in arms over this system. Scottsville, Mumford, and Clifton have all said to the county their budgets are to small to cover these radios. Mumford's yearly firematics budget is only in the $75,000 range a year and buying new radios for the trucks, chiefs, and line officers will cost upwards of $100,000. So, these department don't have a clue what they are going to do yet. I'm sure they are looking for grants to help with the cost.

The system for a short time will be able to be listened to with a P25 scanner per the rep during Phase One. He said Phase Two will be rolled out shortly after everyone is on it meaning no scanners will be able to monitor it as the system will be going to and IP Base TDMA System. So, everyone who bought scanners for this system may have wasted their money.

County Channel 5 and EMS 295 will not go away for dispatching. These are still needed because being a volunteer county pagers are still needed to alert firefighters and EMS volunteers of calls. So people will still be able to hear the calls in the county, they will just not be able to hear the fire ground. Fire departments countywide have said they will not have their firefighters rely on the current digital paging system due to the many failures of the system. It is my understanding and my own experience that most departments in the county are no longer issuing the digital pagers except to line officers and directors/commissioners.

Any questions feel free to ask, if I can answer I will. If I can’t I will try to find the answer.
 
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DaveNF2G

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Not really a waste of money to scan now as one can get several years' worth of listing in before Phase II. If the deadline is 2017, then the actual changeover is likely to be months or years after that.

Plenty of time as well for Phase II capable receivers to be developed. Sales reps always promise unmonitorable systems, but rarely deliver that for any length of time.
 

k2hz

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If you want some frequencies to check -the licensed frequencies for the E Henrietta Rd (near MCC) site are:

769.11875000, 769.30625000, 769.75625000, 770.03125000,770.30625000, 770.75625000

These frequencies are also licensed for: East High, Paul Rd, Quint 6, Van Lare, Webster and MCSO Zone A sites.

The south frequencies are: 769.36875000, 769.80625000, 774.88125000

Sites are: Middle Rd Water Tank, Mendon Ponds Park, Thayer Rd and Rush Range

Hilton: 769.36875000, 769.80625000, 774.88125000

Cobbs Hill: 769.11875000, 769.30625000, 769.36875000, 769.75625000, 769.80625000, 770.03125000, 770.30625000, 770.75625000, 771.56875000, 772.44375000, 772.75625000, 774.88125000

I don't know what is going on with their west side frequencies. They applied for 800MHz frequencies and were denied due to a freeze on 800MHz applications. I don't see any pending applications now for the west side sites.
 

k2hz

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Looking at what is licensed and what was denied, it looks like there is a big hole in their coverage for the Brockport, Spencerport and Churchville area. The Hilton site may give some coverage of Greece and Hamlin and the Rush site may give some coverage around Scottsville but it looks marginal at best.
 

Theo

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I agree with Dave, I wouldn't be a bit surprised the next scanner from Uniden will have phase II in it !
 

d_strong

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re: Harris P25 system

I have a RadioShack Pro-106 scanner how would you program these new Harris P25 frequencies into the scanner?
 

Theo

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d_strong

Sorry, can't help you on RadioShack. BuTel sells software for it or someone else on the list can help you out. I'm a Uniden guy.
 

k2hz

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im wondering why the switch?just seems like yesterday they switched to the 460 p25 freq's from analogue,now this.

This system was instigated by the Monroe County Water Authority although Police, Fire and EMS already were in the process of switching to narrow band compliant systems.

Good article on Navitech - What is the price of oversight | rochesterturning.com

The initial users will be primarily Monroe County and town public works agencies with the hope that Fire, EMS and eventually Police will migrate to it in the future.
 

Theo

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Harris P25

im wondering why the switch?just seems like yesterday they switched to the 460 p25 freq's from analogue,now this.

Harris RF Comm. having a local manufacturing in Rochester and branching out to Public Safety from their normal goverment and military contracts wants to use Monroe County as a ginny pig for their P25 system! They made an offer to the powers to be which under cut Motorola and promised stuff i'm sure thay can't deliver! If its just Phase II we will be able to listen to it in the near future with new scanners that will come out, however if its the same crap in PA all the local scanner hobbiest, PD, FD EMS folks it will all go silent!
 

bigcam406

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thats whats happening up here in my region of Durham.they just announced they are spending 48 million on a new radio system for police,fire,ems totally encrypted,and the contract was awarded to Harris.should be up and running in 2014.
 

Theo

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bigcam406

thats whats happening up here in my region of Durham.they just announced they are spending 48 million on a new radio system for police,fire,ems totally encrypted,and the contract was awarded to Harris.should be up and running in 2014.


Did they say encrypted or just that no scanner can scan P25 Phase II (FDMA/TDMA) at this time?
 
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DaveNF2G

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This system was instigated by the Monroe County Water Authority although Police, Fire and EMS already were in the process of switching to narrow band compliant systems.

And the MCWA Director became director of OEC around that time. I wonder if Mr. Bringewatt still has the kind of pull it will take to get all public safety onto the system, or even to get the funding to complete it.
 
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DaveNF2G

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I think few officials even understand the difference between encryption, digital voice, and Phase II. All they know is that they vendor claims the system cannot be monitored.
 

bigcam406

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I think few officials even understand the difference between encryption, digital voice, and Phase II. All they know is that they vendor claims the system cannot be monitored.

they know the difference,even fire wants encryption,emails i have seen confirmed this.
 
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DaveNF2G

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I don't mean those officials. I mean the politicians who spend the money.

And why does fire want/need encryption?
 

bigcam406

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the head of our region is a former cop,so he knows about encryption.when the region put out the tender,thats what was on the document.ive read it.as for fire wanting encryption,they said there was no use police having encryption and them not.also,they used the excuse of patient privacy issues.lol.but its funny,because our ems service is on another system,and you can hear it.so much for that excuse.
 

k2hz

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How far away is Ontario County from completing their part of this regional radio system?

The FCC returned their original application in April for the following reasons:

"When applying for Canada primary channels, the applicant needs to include a pfd study for any location within the Sharing Zone (0-100 km from border). The maximum pfd at or beyond the border must not exceed -124 dB(W/m2) per 25 kHz bandwidth. 770.61875MHz and 771.15625 MHz at locations 1,2,& 3 are Canada primary channels under the new treaty, therefore provide the pdf studies for these channels. ADDITIONALLY per rule 90.535 all transmitters must use digital modulation. The 11K2F3E emission should be deleted from this File."

The submitted an ammendment that deleted the frequencies requiring studies and the 11K2F3E emission

The FCC granted licenses on 6/18 and 6/19 that authorize only a single frequency per site:
769.55625 Hopewell, Geneva, Seneca,Victor, E Bloomfield & Cheshire
770.08125 Canadice, South Bristol, Gannett Hill, Naples & Bristol Center

Since their application asked for "extended implementation" time, this gives them authority to build the sites which were not planned to be operational until 2013 anyway.

Their application stated this schedule:

"2012. Construction of five (5) new raw land tower sites, upgrade of existing County-owned and collocated sites
and installation of fixed radio and microwave infrastructure.

2013. Installation of the radio console system, completion of tuning and acceptance testing of the system, and
training of subscribers in the use of the system.

The proposed timeline would allow the County to complete installation of the system, but at the same time not be constrained by the normal 12 month construction deadline of FCC licensing requirements."

Given their stated plans, I would not expect to hear any activity soon.
 
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