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Old 10-19-2012, 10:13 PM
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Default Finding Talkgroups on 346XT

I have a Uniden BC346XT and I do not do much work on any trunked systems as there are not too many in my area that I have intrest in. Nearby one police dept had gone to a Trunked system. LTR Standard. Below is a link to the page on the database about this particular system. There are no known talkgroups so I would like to search and find some so I can listen to them and help to complete this part of the database. Any help?

I'm posting this under the Uniden section because its a question on how to search for talkgroups on my scanner, however if the admins find it better to switch this to the New York thread, please do. Thank you

Niskayuna Trunking System, Niskayuna, New York - Scanner Frequencies
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:11 AM
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After creating the LTR system, you search for the unknown or new Talk Group just the same as any other trunked system.. Toggle back and forth between Scan or Search using Function /Scan/ Search .

As no LCNs are listed for that system, finding the correct LCN is the big problem.
Do a Google search for "How to find the correct LCN for LTR" ..

If you know someone that has a PRO 97 or GRE PSR 310 or one of the other scanners that have a feature to find the the LCN once the frequency is known.........you're in luck.
The Unidens XT models don't have that feature.

Clark
Venice, Calif.
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark View Post
After creating the LTR system, you search for the unknown or new Talk Group just the same as any other trunked system.. Toggle back and forth between Scan or Search using Function /Scan/ Search .

As no LCNs are listed for that system, finding the correct LCN is the big problem.
Do a Google search for "How to find the correct LCN for LTR" ..

If you know someone that has a PRO 97 or GRE PSR 310 or one of the other scanners that have a feature to find the the LCN once the frequency is known.........you're in luck.
The Unidens XT models don't have that feature.

Clark
Venice, Calif.
LCN is the control channel, correct? I do not do much of anything with any trunked systems at all so I am new to working with them.
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
LCN is the control channel, correct? I do not do much of anything with any trunked systems at all so I am new to working with them.
LTR Standard systems have no dedicated control channel. All control data is sent as subaudible data along with voice transmissions. Systems can have any number of channels from 1 through a maximum of 20. Each channel in the system is assigned a unique LCN number (01 through 20) and these need not be sequentially assigned.

Uniden and Radio Shack scanners that track LTR Standard systems require that the channels be programmed in the proper logical order LCN (Logical Channel Number), in order to properly monitor the system.

Click Here for more information on Logic Trunked Radio.
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Last edited by W8RMH; 10-20-2012 at 12:40 AM..
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by W8RMH View Post
LTR Standard systems have no dedicated control channel. All control data is sent as subaudible data along with voice transmissions. Systems can have any number of channels from 1 through a maximum of 20. Each channel in the system is assigned a unique number (01 through 20) and these need not be sequentially assigned.

Uniden and Radio Shack scanners that track LTR Standard systems require that the channels be programmed in (LCN) proper logical order, in order to properly monitor the system
Okay, that helps. Since this system has only 4 frequencies, would it be best to just make seperate systems with different orders and find out what one works?
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Old 10-20-2012, 2:18 AM
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A gentleman by the name of Eric Carlson wrote a nifty little utility to help identify unknown LCNs. This should work with your 346XT, as it has the control channel dump feature. You will have to manually enable this feature through the 'Settings/Set C-CH Output' menu. Make sure you set it to "On' instead of 'Extend'. You should also turn this feature off when not in use.
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Old 10-20-2012, 2:50 AM
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It's pretty easy to figure out the LCN's for an LTR system, as they do announce themselves if you have the right scanner or software to read the data output.

The software PiccoIntegra linked to, Eric's LTRLogger, is perfect for what you want to do.

LTRLogger

Download that file, unzip the contents to a folder, then open LTRLogger.exe.config. Change the baud to 115200 and the COM Port to whatever your 346XT cable is connected to.

On the 346XT, make the following changes:

Menu > Settings > Set Serial Port > 115200 bps
Menu > Settings > Set C-CH Output > On

Run LTRLogger.exe and it should pop up a blank command window if it's communicating with the scanner correctly. Make sure you're not using any other software to connect to the scanner at the same time.

Depending on how active the system is, you may have to let it run for a while before you can nail down the LCN of each frequency. LTR systems generally skip an LCN, so you might wind up with LCN 01, 03, 05 and 07. It all depends how the system was setup, but don't be surprised if you don't see 01, 02, 03 and 04.

If I remember correctly, you have to program all four frequencies in as an LTR system, then hold on one of the system's frequencies while LTRLogger is running. I haven't run the program in a while, so I'll have to double check that.

Depending on how active the system is, or each LCN is, you might have to let it sit on each frequency for a while before you log anything.

Last edited by Chauffeur6; 10-20-2012 at 3:49 AM..
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Old 10-20-2012, 3:59 PM
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OP, I am still hearing Niskayuna Police (dispatch traffic at least) on their conventional 800 channel, if that is the PD you are referring to.
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Old 10-20-2012, 4:26 PM
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It's possible there isn't even an active system on those frequencies. They're not licensed for 858.9875, by the way, even though it shows up on the page for that system.

ULS License - Public Safety/Spec Emerg, 806-821/851-866 MHz, Trunked License - WPKY419 - NISKAYUNA, TOWN OF - Frequencies Summary

I'm interested to see if you get anything at all on these frequencies. If it is an LTR system, you should probably hear data bursts every few seconds on at least one of the frequencies (will sound like someone keying up in short bursts). If it's any other type of system (Motorola, P25, EDACS) you will hear a control channel on one of the frequencies. At the very least, you should hear something on one or more of those frequencies if they are being used.

If you don't hear anything on any of those frequencies after monitoring for a few weeks, please let me know and I will delete that system from the database.
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Old 10-20-2012, 9:06 PM
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I drove up to Niskayuna this evening and left my homepatrol on record while I ran some errands. No active voice traffic was heard. I was not surprised because this is supposed to be a municipal gov't/DPW system anyway.

Using the LCN finder and the activity log on the home patrol, the only LCN I could find for 857.9875 was 5. It also displayed LCNs 10 & 31 without associated frequencies. I have never used this before so if anyone else has any input? (See screenshot below)

There were two talkgroups that were just data bursts (0-05-029 & 0-05-255).

Manually listening to the frequencies I could only hear the data bursts on 857.9875

Hope this helps.

And for those that can't see it - Dave/NF2G had this information on the old site:
857.9875 Ch 5
859.9875 Ch 10
860.9875 Ch 20 (Interpolated)

With these TGs listed
Water dept telemetry
0 05 026
0 05 027
0 05 028
0 05 029
0 05 030

LCN 5 BSI
0 05 253

Niskayuna Central Schools
0 10 041

LCN 10 BSI
0 10 253
0 10 041
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Last edited by FDNY10-75; 10-20-2012 at 9:11 PM..
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Old 10-20-2012, 9:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Thunderknight View Post
OP, I am still hearing Niskayuna Police (dispatch traffic at least) on their conventional 800 channel, if that is the PD you are referring to.
Yes that is the PD I am referring to. I just want to see if there is any use on this new system at all.
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Old 10-20-2012, 9:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauffeur6 View Post
It's possible there isn't even an active system on those frequencies. They're not licensed for 858.9875, by the way, even though it shows up on the page for that system.

ULS License - Public Safety/Spec Emerg, 806-821/851-866 MHz, Trunked License - WPKY419 - NISKAYUNA, TOWN OF - Frequencies Summary

I'm interested to see if you get anything at all on these frequencies. If it is an LTR system, you should probably hear data bursts every few seconds on at least one of the frequencies (will sound like someone keying up in short bursts). If it's any other type of system (Motorola, P25, EDACS) you will hear a control channel on one of the frequencies. At the very least, you should hear something on one or more of those frequencies if they are being used.

If you don't hear anything on any of those frequencies after monitoring for a few weeks, please let me know and I will delete that system from the database.
Alright I will let you know.
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Old 10-20-2012, 9:37 PM
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I've updated the LCN's based on what Eli logged with the HP-1.

Let's see if we can confirm some of the TG's Dave had on his site.
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Old 10-20-2012, 9:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauffeur6 View Post
I've updated the LCN's based on what Eli logged with the HP-1.

Let's see if we can confirm some of the TG's Dave had on his site.
At the moment right now, I am running the 4 frequencies as conventional frequencies to check to see what are being used. I am running freescan logger and will leave it running for a while and see what are active. I also am recording with xcorder so I will post a snippet from that too. So far in just a few minutes there has been activity on freq 859.9875 and 857.9875.
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Old 10-23-2012, 1:03 AM
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Okay so heres what I gathered, I still only had activity on the two freqs I mentioned above. Heres a screenshot of a bit of the logging showing the two freqs active and a quick audio file of some of the activity. Not sure if this helps at all but this is what I have as of now. What would be my next step in trying to figure out more for this system? Also, sorry that I had to upload the audio in a zip file, it was the only way I could.
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File Type: zip Nisky Testing.zip (147.6 KB, 5 views)
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Old 10-23-2012, 1:14 AM
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Create it as an LTR system in your 346XT so you can scan in ID Search mode to grab the talkgroup ID's.

Here are the steps to do it using FreeSCAN:

- New Sys > Type: LTR > Name: Niskayuna > Create System

- [LTR] Site 1 > Trunk Frequencies > click + three times then fill in >

857.9865 LCN 5
859.9875 LCN 10
860.9875 LCN 31

That's it, you can leave everything else the default values. You might want to assign a System Quick Key to it, but I'm sure you're familiar with that already. You can assign that SQK to either the entire system, or just the site. It really doesn't matter in this case, since there's only one site.

You can also leave that default [GRP] TGID Group 1 empty for now. As you confirm talkgroups, you can add them to that group and name them, etc.
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Old 10-23-2012, 1:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauffeur6 View Post
Create it as an LTR system in your 346XT so you can scan in ID Search mode to grab the talkgroup ID's.

Here are the steps to do it using FreeSCAN:

- New Sys > Type: LTR > Name: Niskayuna > Create System

- [LTR] Site 1 > Trunk Frequencies > click + three times then fill in >

857.9865 LCN 5
859.9875 LCN 10
860.9875 LCN 31

That's it, you can leave everything else the default values. You might want to assign a System Quick Key to it, but I'm sure you're familiar with that already. You can assign that SQK to either the entire system, or just the site. It really doesn't matter in this case, since there's only one site.

You can also leave that default [GRP] TGID Group 1 empty for now. As you confirm talkgroups, you can add them to that group and name them, etc.
Alright thank you, I am familiar of how to program a system into freescan. The 3 frequencies, is it possible there are more? Also, after a while of monitoring, any Talkgroups I discover, I will post here, or would you prefer that I just submit them to be added to the system or both?
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Old 10-23-2012, 1:29 AM
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They are only licensed for those 3 frequencies, and it doesn't look like 860.9875 is used very often. You can post the TG's here if you like, but once you've confirmed them please submit them also so I can add them to the DB.
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Old 10-23-2012, 6:07 AM
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just a note about the 346 does not go past 20 on LCN ! only 01thur 20 LCN #'s
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Old 10-23-2012, 1:14 PM
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I left logging on overnight and until about 1PM today and here are the TG I found:
0-05-023
0-05-027
0-05-028
0-05-029
0-05-030
0-10-041

Not sure what each of these are use for yet, but I will take a listen today. This was just from the Logging on Freescan.
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