icom radio for the new digital system

tomhrrs69 · #1 (**permalink**) 10-25-2012, 12:16 PM

I am looking at handheld radios that can cover vhf, 136-174 MHz, for search and rescue operations, as well as monitoring the new P25 system in Cayuga/Onondaga county. If i get this radio, Icom F70DS, that covers the 136-174, will i be able to monitor the CNYICC. I noticed that the control channels for the CNYICC is 460.41250, so does that mean I need a radio that covers the 400-470mhz instead?

Motoman55 · #2 (**permalink**) 10-25-2012, 12:21 PM

That is correct you will need to purchase a UHF TRUNKING radio for CNYICC. The F70DS in Frequency range 136-174 will not work for CNYICC. Again the radio that you purchase for CNYICC has to be a UHF TRUNKING radio or it will not work.

tomhrrs69 · #3 (**permalink**) 10-25-2012, 12:26 PM

thanks for the quick reply. that's what I thought, but wasn't sure, and I knew that someone here would be able to help.

kb2ztx · #4 (**permalink**) 11-01-2012, 7:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2DMG

That is correct you will need to purchase a UHF TRUNKING radio for CNYICC. The F70DS in Frequency range 136-174 will not work for CNYICC. Again the radio that you purchase for CNYICC has to be a UHF TRUNKING radio or it will not work.

and would need the approval of onondaga county to put it on the system...which i doubt they would give it....

Motoman55 · #5 (**permalink**) 11-02-2012, 9:16 PM

Not if only programmed to Receive only.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb2ztx

and would need the approval of onondaga county to put it on the system...which i doubt they would give it....

esfd283 · #6 (**permalink**) 11-03-2012, 5:07 AM

It is my understanding that Astro CPS does not allow for Rx only on trunking....Are you referring to a work around?

kb2ztx · #7 (**permalink**) 11-03-2012, 6:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2DMG

Not if only programmed to Receive only.

Incorrect. As someone who is intimittly involved in the programming and implimentation of Astro 25 Trunking networks and very familiar with all local systems if this could be done I wouldn't of spent thousands of dollars on portables to listen to stuff. P25 Digital conventional will allow any manufacturer to be used, however trunking is a whole different story. To add a ICOM radio to the system would require a ASK to be used by the county and approval to monitor the system would need to come from the proper authority.

Hope this helps a bit.

As for the F70DT. This is a ideal radio for SAR, although a little more than you need. If your looking at the future then P25 may be nice, but the F50V series is a much better radio for SAR and is a bit more economical. I believe many SAR teams have migrated to the F50.

MTS2000des · #8 (**permalink**) 11-08-2012, 4:40 AM

FWIW, the Icom IC-F70DT and F80DT's I had would not even monitor RX only trunking systems when programmed conventionally. Same thing with Kenwood Nexedge radios. Kenwood NXDN radios intentionally mute any transmission programmed conventionally that is carrying a trunking voice call. I know, I've tried it with an NX210 on a Nexedge VHF trunking system. A blip of audio then mute.

kb2ztx · #9 (**permalink**) 11-08-2012, 6:50 PM

Nexedge will not now or ever decode P25 trunking as it is a totally different format. The F70/80 will decode Kenwood NXDN trunking if programmed properly in conventional. I have a radio sitting across my room listening to a NXDN system right now. Same can be done with the Kenwood portables. Just need to program it correctly...

MTS2000des · #10 (**permalink**) 11-17-2012, 2:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb2ztx

Nexedge will not now or ever decode P25 trunking as it is a totally different format. The F70/80 will decode Kenwood NXDN trunking if programmed properly in conventional. I have a radio sitting across my room listening to a NXDN system right now. Same can be done with the Kenwood portables. Just need to program it correctly...

really? an F70/F80 will decode NXDN packets? news to me. Love to see a youtube video of it.

I can tell you for a fact that on a NXDN subscriber radio, you CANNOT program one to passively monitor a NXDN trunked system even in conventional mode. I've tried it (Jones county, GA VHF NXDN TRS) with no RAN and guess what I got: a blip of audio then mute. Radio is an NX210 with F/W 3.0. Also tried NX700 with F/W 2.5, same result.

Feel free to call Kenwood LMR support in Suwanee and they will tell you the same thing, it won't work. It's a security bit added to NXDN trunking packets to prevent unauthorized access. I also heard this IN PERSON from one of the engineers from Kenwood USA at a NXDN training class held at Radio One of Norcross last year.

mmckenna · #11 (**permalink**) 11-17-2012, 3:15 PM

Heh...
Yeah, I run an 800MHz NexEdge trunked system, and you can't monitor it with a NXDN radio in conventional mode. I'd love to see how you did that, too. I think KB2ZTX meant to say he's listening to a conventional system, not a trunked system.

True, a NexEdge radio will not decode P25, however the hardware in the radio is identical. NXDN and P25 both use the AMBE+2 vocoder. The only difference in the software. I've been told by Kenwood that making an NXDN radio work on P25 just requires a firmware reflash, however I haven't seen it out to the public yet. If you look at the NX-200 and NX-300 radios, they are physically identical to the TK-5220 and TK-5320. Yes, P25 and NexEdge are different formats and are not compatible, but the hardware is the same, so be careful about saying it can never be done!

And like MTS2000DES, Kenwood training at the HQ in Carson California last year specifically on NXDN systems....

ThePagerGeek · #12 (**permalink**) 11-17-2012, 5:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb2ztx

Incorrect. As someone who is intimittly involved in the programming and implimentation of Astro 25 Trunking networks and very familiar with all local systems if this could be done I wouldn't of spent thousands of dollars on portables to listen to stuff. P25 Digital conventional will allow any manufacturer to be used, however trunking is a whole different story. To add a ICOM radio to the system would require a ASK to be used by the county and approval to monitor the system would need to come from the proper authority.

This is not true of Harris terminals. They can be set-up for receive only, and do not require ASK's or any other software authentication for standard P25 trunking system receive.

tpg

mmckenna · #13 (**permalink**) 11-17-2012, 11:11 PM

KB2ZTX,

Sounds a bit confusing? Maybe you need to clarify a bit here to help yourself out.

A Kenwood radio cannot be programmed to monitor a Kenwood trunked system in conventional NXDN mode. Two of us who have been through Kenwood NexEdge training know this as a fact. I run a NexEdge trunked system and I have tried it, it does not work.
Now maybe Icom radios and Icom trunking is different. Icom trunking and Kenwood trunking are NOT compatible, so maybe this is where the confusion is.

You are correct about NexEdge radios not being able to decode P25, the format is different, however the hardware is the same.

Not trying to rip you here, just trying to figure out what you are seeing and why it differs from what the rest of us have experienced. If you do have some secret way of making a Kenwood NexEdge radio decode Kenwood NexEdge trunking in conventional NXDN mode, we'd love to see it.

kb2ztx · #14 (**permalink**) 11-22-2012, 7:31 PM

Sorry got my model numbers mixed up. Correct a P25 (F70/80) will not decode the NXEDGE stuff. I had a 4161 that was monitoring the Kenwood trunking system in a nearby county. There was a NAC code that is a CSQ tye code but i can't remember it off hand. Put that in the radio and you will scan the system in conventional only.