Oneida County - Analog vs Digital, Conventional vs Trunked - Comm problems...

[c0untyb0y]

Local police agencies’ radios out of sync

Rome has its own radio system. Utica has another, which also is used by New Hartford. And sheriff’s deputies and the troopers communicate over a common frequency, along with many of the other law enforcement agencies in the county. There isn’t room on that frequency, however, for Utica, Rome and New Hartford.

Add into the mix the fact that if Rome, Utica or New Hartford police get too far afield, they can’t even communicate with the dispatch center.

Most of the time the radio issues don’t come into play because the agencies are working on their own. When multiple agencies work together, however, it can cause problems.

 

[Mtnrider]

Poor planing....period....never should have ever gotten like this

 

[othb1234]

Rome PD

Hi is my pro-197 digital scanner able to receive Rome PD. Thanks for help in advance

 

[c0untyb0y]

Poor planing....period....never should have ever gotten like this

unfortunately it has to take an incident like this to show everyone what poor planning makes. yes, the county consolidated 3 PSAPs into 1 but there are still 3 unique radio networks in use for that lone PSAP. the public safety commissioners in Rome, Utica, and New Hartford have to take a good, hard, long look at the future of their communications. Oneida County isn't leaving conventional analog anytime soon.

 

[AuntEnvy]

unfortunately it has to take an incident like this to show everyone what poor planning makes. yes, the county consolidated 3 PSAPs into 1 but there are still 3 unique radio networks in use for that lone PSAP. the public safety commissioners in Rome, Utica, and New Hartford have to take a good, hard, long look at the future of their communications. Oneida County isn't leaving conventional analog anytime soon.

So does that mean the "normal" VHF frequencies are still being used?

I've been wondering this about a few of the counties around here.

They're all hopping onto the trunked/digital bandwagon but their licenses say their conventional channels are still active, if you will.

Now I'm not positive, but aren't all these agencies (mobiles) now equipped with digital/trunked radios only? Or are they just patched/simulcast through the dispatch centers if/when need be?

 

[KD2DXF]

should follow suit with Lewis, Jefferson, and St. Lawrence, and jump on the Central New York Interoperable Communications Consortium Network band-wagon.

 

[studgeman]

This isn't exactly news. It's been this way since Rome switched to EDACS in 1995. I was discussing some of these issues in a meeting yesterday. This problems starts and stops on the 10th floor of Park Ave. Being able to communicate during an emergency/disaster is not a priority for Oneida Co. Part of the reason is people continue to make excuses or compensate for the lack of interoperable systems "we can work around it." Being a leader knows when to make something a problem so it can be effectively addressed.

PS Rome...Told you so! That exact scenario was one of my "likely" events to happen.

 

[studgeman]

Digital scanners will not receive Rome. They are using a proprietary digital system. Other software will not receive them at this point either

 

[DaveNF2G]

What system is this? AFAIK, just about any digital voice system can be monitored with some kind of software and interface now.

 

[studgeman]

Dave, its a NXDN 4800 trunked. Dsd doesn't handle it yet. There is a change in the frame that DsD doesn't detect properly in the trunked vs conventional

 

[c0untyb0y]

This isn't exactly news. It's been this way since Rome switched to EDACS in 1995. I was discussing some of these issues in a meeting yesterday. This problems starts and stops on the 10th floor of Park Ave. Being able to communicate during an emergency/disaster is not a priority for Oneida Co. Part of the reason is people continue to make excuses or compensate for the lack of interoperable systems "we can work around it." Being a leader knows when to make something a problem so it can be effectively addressed.

PS Rome...Told you so! That exact scenario was one of my "likely" events to happen.

this should be Mike Grande's first order of business then. it was tough not being able to listen in on the water rescue Friday evening except for the scant Fire Control transmissions from AmCare. what if Rome needed one of the water rescue teams from Taberg or Oriskany to come in and assist? a dispatcher at 9-1-1 has to become the radio repeater, just like with the PD chase several weeks ago.

 

[c0untyb0y]

So does that mean the "normal" VHF frequencies are still being used?

I've been wondering this about a few of the counties around here.

They're all hopping onto the trunked/digital bandwagon but their licenses say their conventional channels are still active, if you will.

Now I'm not positive, but aren't all these agencies (mobiles) now equipped with digital/trunked radios only? Or are they just patched/simulcast through the dispatch centers if/when need be?

in order for an agency like the State Police to talk to all the PDs in Oneida County, three radios are needed. one for county MRD (VHF conventional), one for Utica and New Hartford (EDACS), and one for Rome (NXDN). have you ever tried fitting three radio heads into a console only with room for one, barely two? the EDACS system does patching to the VHF dispatch channels, and UFD does their station alerting on UHF, so there is some interop there but Rome on to itself is a digital island in the analog sea of Oneida County.

 

[studgeman]

If Rome was P25, I could at least buy a radio (albeit expensive) that would talk on the County and Rome. The State police already do this in other areas. With the patches in Utica and now that the county has control stations on it, it could be a workable situation, though far from perfect.

This is my P25 is so important as a nationwide standard...it drives product development, sic multi-band radios

Oneida County is a mess and it will take real leadership from the county level to clean this up. If it was a priority it would have been fixed by now. The public safety members of the county need to make it a priority before something stretches the communications systems beyond their capabilities. It only takes one knucklehead doing something stupid.

 

[MegaHertz315]

LZ comms

Once again, Oneida County FAILS at interoperability.

Mercy Flight en route to an LZ on Route 49, and wanted to know the LZ unit and frequency. Dispatcher replied "trying to work that out with the county... of the 100s of frequencies we have, they don't seem to have any of them."

In the end, the Mercy Flight dispatcher had to relay the LZ info from ground units to the medevac.

Of all the different frequencies and radio bands that Oneida County uses, there should be no excuse why they can't communicate with a in bound medevac.

Although, Mercy Flight should also have a PLAN in place PRIOR to going to Oneida County. For a short time they had a base in Oneida County (svc. was suspended in late September) so why they don't have a frequency already planned out when responding to Oneida County calls is silly too.

 

[KD2DXF]

Same situation happened 2 years ago with Mercy Flight. I don't remember the exact circumstances, but a Helicopter was requested for an accident in T/O Western Area. Mercy Flight called Oneida County on 155.370, asking for LZ information, because they did not have Oneida County Fire Control in their radios. Hey maybe third time is the charm?

 

[R0am3r]

Once again, Oneida County FAILS at interoperability.

Mercy Flight en route to an LZ on Route 49, and wanted to know the LZ unit and frequency. Dispatcher replied "trying to work that out with the county... of the 100s of frequencies we have, they don't seem to have any of them."

In the end, the Mercy Flight dispatcher had to relay the LZ info from ground units to the medevac.

Of all the different frequencies and radio bands that Oneida County uses, there should be no excuse why they can't communicate with a in bound medevac.

Although, Mercy Flight should also have a PLAN in place PRIOR to going to Oneida County. For a short time they had a base in Oneida County (svc. was suspended in late September) so why they don't have a frequency already planned out when responding to Oneida County calls is silly too.

This is really a Mercy Flight problem. Oneida Fire Control has been on 154.370 MHz for 20+ (maybe 30?) years. How could the Mercy Flight medevac not know this?

 

[58006]

This is really a Mercy Flight problem. Oneida Fire Control has been on 154.370 MHz for 20+ (maybe 30?) years. How could the Mercy Flight medevac not know this?

1. It is a repeated frequency and last I knew Fire Control does not have the ability to listen to 154.370 directly.

2. The requesting party tells the helicopter what frequency to use when they request the helicopter, it is not up to the helicopter it is up to the agency doing the landing zone.

3. Mind you a good share of the area East of Oneida uses 155.715 for LZ ops, but obviously that is an issue since that is an OCSO frequency.

4. A simple solution would be for NYS to do something like Vermont did, but it will never fly in NYS. In Vermont by state mandate all Helicopter/LZ Operations are conducted on VTAC14.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Why is OCSO using a frequency that has been designated for statewide EMS for over 30 years?

 

[58006]

Well that is a good question. 715 has been licensed by the Sheriff Office and used as a law enforcement frequency for probably close to three decades as well. Just goes back to poor frequency coordination and the fact that frequency was assigned as a "local government" frequency by the FCC not a "special emergency" frequency. As it stands now the only statewide license for 715 is held by the State Police. When State EMS finally decided to get FCC licenses again 715 was not in the mix?

 

[DaveNF2G]

I don't know what "State EMS" would be. 155.715 was in the statewide EMS communications handbook back in the early 1980s as a statewide hospital-to-hospital coordination channel. Of course, local entities did whatever they wanted, which is typical "home rule" thinking in New York state. .715 was the Aircom channel at the Greater Rochester International Airport, for example.