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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2013, 1:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Chauffeur6 View Post
You seem to be assuming that everyone is using a low power portable and only getting out for a mile or two. Many hams use relatively high powered base stations or mobiles, which can propagate for quite a number of miles. I can often receive hams from their base/mobiles 10+ miles away without breaking a sweat.

Not only would it not minimize the issue, but it would almost certainly make these guys that much more determined to screw with ham repeaters by proving they can get around extremely feeble attempts to "secure" the repeater.

As Steve said, security by obscurity doesn't work. Not publishing input tones and/or making the input/output tones unique is ineffective, that's the bottom line.
All I'm saying is that I see private repeaters stay private. But what you and Steve are saying is correct but still will they really go through the trouble of scanning for pls and trying to listen to the uplink for a pl. I mean most people I see using high power transmitters are usually in a dense or far from the repeaters. In a city like NY where many people don't own cars or house, mobile or base stations are not very common I assume. Most Landlord dont allow antennas on the roof or on the property. And you really don't need a car unless you have a big family. I'm assuming jammers are lonely jerks who have no lives.
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Old 05-19-2013, 1:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Danny37 View Post
But what you and Steve are saying is correct but still will they really go through the trouble of scanning for pls and trying to listen to the uplink for a pl.
If you change the PL, you've taken their playground away. They'll do whatever it takes to get back to their regular nasty behavior and in a real hurry. And, since someone tried to block them, they'll cause more troubles than ever. It's classic bully behavior.

These trouble makers are far more aggressive and obsessed in what they do than you can begin to imagine. Changing PL will only slow them down for an hour or two at most.

We all know that the real solution is aggressive and persistent enforcement by the FCC. And we all know that the likelyhood of that is somewhere between slim and none.
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Old 05-19-2013, 1:34 PM
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If you change the PL, you've taken their playground away. They'll do whatever it takes to get back to their regular nasty behavior and in a real hurry. And, since someone tried to block them, they'll cause more troubles than ever. It's classic bully behavior.

These trouble makers are far more aggressive and obsessed in what they do than you can begin to imagine. Changing PL will only slow them down for an hour or two at most.

We all know that the real solution is aggressive and persistent enforcement by the FCC. And we all know that the likelyhood of that is somewhere between slim and none.
It's actually very sad, I mean it also seems that jammers are using hts so I'm guessing the cant afford base rigs. You would think that in city like Nyc they're would be activity on the 144/440 bands but it actually very quiet. Now we have digital booming like d-star, turbo, p25 etc getting fairly popular on the ham side. Analog is in a crisis.
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Old 05-19-2013, 9:05 PM
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Only way you can stop it or slow it down is by starting to make examples out of the persons jamming. Back in the day (way before my time) if someone was jamming or causing interference hams would go out and try and find where these people are txing from. Find them record them and let the FCC know. MotoTurdo is really starting to take off I wouldn't be surprised if you see more repeaters in the city switch to DMR
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2013, 9:51 PM
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Only way you can stop it or slow it down is by starting to make examples out of the persons jamming. Back in the day (way before my time) if someone was jamming or causing interference hams would go out and try and find where these people are txing from. Find them record them and let the FCC know. MotoTurdo is really starting to take off I wouldn't be surprised if you see more repeaters in the city switch to DMR
Are they actually making dmr or p25 ham radios? I know they make d-star ones. While yes I totally agree with you but if the FCC has the control of the amateur band shouldn't they enforce the rules, not the hams self policing themselves. I mean whats surprising now is that fcc has been fining localized cb ops because of the hi wattage is causing interference on other devices. the bowl on ch 6 is nearly diminished.
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:44 PM
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Default Chaos on NYC/LI ham repeaters, whats going on?

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Originally Posted by Danny37 View Post
Are they actually making dmr or p25 ham radios? I know they make d-star ones. While yes I totally agree with you but if the FCC has the control of the amateur band shouldn't they enforce the rules, not the hams self policing themselves. I mean whats surprising now is that fcc has been fining localized cb ops because of the hi wattage is causing interference on other devices. the bowl on ch 6 is nearly diminished.
I believe yaesu came out with a portable and a mobile that is compatible with DMR along with their own digital format. Hams using p25 or DMR are using commercial radios since there really isn't any ham grade transceivers for P25 or DMR.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2013, 7:54 AM
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Danny37, your ignorance of ham radio is extensive. Your assumptions (your word, not mine) are mostly incorrect. Your ideas about the way enforcement "should" happen have no connection to the reality that is the history and regulatory basis of ham radio.

Do some research.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2013, 8:10 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveNF2G View Post
Danny37, your ignorance of ham radio is extensive. Your assumptions (your word, not mine) are mostly incorrect. Your ideas about the way enforcement "should" happen have no connection to the reality that is the history and regulatory basis of ham radio.

Do some research.
I'm sorry but I came here to ask the "experts" what can be done and threw an idea. But you should know that I'm not a ham so I'm not very familiar with it. Way to discourage a studying ham student. As an educator I would assume you would show some professionalism on the forums, instead you sounds like a grumpy old man. Before you pick your fights, please be sure you know who your talking to before you make idiotic statement on a forum that supposed to be helpful. Hope you had your morning coffee so your next post isn't as bad as the first. Man are all hams this rude and disrespectful, almost feel like I shouldn't even bother.
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2013, 8:16 AM
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You should also know that I sustained spinal injuries in a car accident a few months back while volunteering. I've been having more down side so I thought I should the exam after putting it off for so long. Between pain management and transportation. Then I go online and hear guys like you and I think to myself why even bother taking the test if guys like you are on the air. I don't need to add more drama to my life, I'm tired, sick and in pain. So thanks dave, have a good one.
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Old 05-20-2013, 1:01 PM
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Default Chaos on NYC/LI ham repeaters, whats going on?

Danny,

Don't worry, most hams are nice and willing to help. Some are curmudgeons, but not in any higher percentages than the rest of the population.

I say, let the curmudgeons grump away and don't give it any further thought. Most of the hams here on RR are and have been helpful to newbies, I've seen it over and over!

Keep studying, get your Technician license and get on the air! You won't regret it. If you are physically able to visit a local club, try to get to a meeting and introduce yourself. Chances are you will be warmly welcomed.

All best,
Jim
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2013, 1:13 PM
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Thumbs down Choas on li Repeaters

Im a young ham on longisland and was a member of a radio club i loved it the older members emlered me and stuff but then they turned never let me help with anyhting or have a say. they ignored evey one of my emails and then told me i didnt know what i was talking about and they never ignored me i got so fed up with the bs going on there i had to leave from being a member of the club. there also always talking about being professional and i cant do things because im unproffesional messing things up. where did this whole professional thing come into play that ham radio was about having fun and sharing new ideas.
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2013, 1:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimru View Post
Danny,

Don't worry, most hams are nice and willing to help. Some are curmudgeons, but not in any higher percentages than the rest of the population.

I say, let the curmudgeons grump away and don't give it any further thought. Most of the hams here on RR are and have been helpful to newbies, I've seen it over and over!

Keep studying, get your Technician license and get on the air! You won't regret it. If you are physically able to visit a local club, try to get to a meeting and introduce yourself. Chances are you will be warmly welcomed.

All best,
Jim
Wow thanks Jim, I appreciate your warm regards. I'm thinking in the summer time I'll get my ticket once im done with pt but monitoring this garbage on the scanner and seeing the grumpness on this forum as well as on the air discourages me. I hope most hams are like you. Thanks again.

Also I've realized I've been using bad grammar and punctuality as these Meds take a toll on my system, please excuse me guys.
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2013, 1:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kd2ael View Post
Im a young ham on longisland and was a member of a radio club i loved it the older members emlered me and stuff but then they turned never let me help with anyhting or have a say. they ignored evey one of my emails and then told me i didnt know what i was talking about and they never ignored me i got so fed up with the bs going on there i had to leave from being a member of the club. there also always talking about being professional and i cant do things because im unproffesional messing things up. where did this whole professional thing come into play that ham radio was about having fun and sharing new ideas.
I'm sorry hear that it seems that the older folks no matter how much we respect them, hold no respect for the younger guys. I've always been taught to respect my elders so I do but i expect that back and if you disrespect me i will disrespect you with no hesitation. I even heard a guy on a repeater during a conversation say "don't acknowledge the kd2 callsigns cause they're a bunch of liberal idiots with no technical knowledge"
Doesn't sound like inviting behavior by the older folks who are suppose encourage the next generation of hams. I've heard people say their callsigns In between conversation and the operators talking purposely ignore them so they can carry on rag chewing. Sad but very true in our neck of the woods.
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2013, 7:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Danny37 View Post
I'm sorry but I came here to ask the "experts" what can be done and threw an idea. But you should know that I'm not a ham so I'm not very familiar with it. Way to discourage a studying ham student. As an educator I would assume you would show some professionalism on the forums, instead you sounds like a grumpy old man.
As an educator, I expect the student to bear some of the responsibility for learning.

Quote:
Before you pick your fights, please be sure you know who your talking to before you make idiotic statement on a forum that supposed to be helpful. Hope you had your morning coffee so your next post isn't as bad as the first. Man are all hams this rude and disrespectful, almost feel like I shouldn't even bother.
I am not picking a fight. If you are somebody special, or have special needs, then you are being unfair by springing this information after somebody steps on your toes. Give the rest of the world a break. Tell us about yourself up front so we can adjust. Otherwise, you can expect to be bruised once in a while by being treated as though you were normal.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2013, 8:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveNF2G View Post
As an educator, I expect the student to bear some of the responsibility for learning.



I am not picking a fight. If you are somebody special, or have special needs, then you are being unfair by springing this information after somebody steps on your toes. Give the rest of the world a break. Tell us about yourself up front so we can adjust. Otherwise, you can expect to be bruised once in a while by being treated as though you were normal.
Wow you hold no morals do you. For one I'm not going to say "hey, I'm disabled out of nowhere, I'm a guy who's in his early 20s who lives like he's at the end of his life. I have a whole year off and it's not the good kind. I'm trying to get on my feet and yes I know they'll be a chance for me to get "bruised" but not here on the forums. I live in NYC don't tell me that I don't expect to be bruised, I've tried walking around the block and people bump me and cross over me like I'm a menace just because walking slow. I cant stand staying in , its just not my nature. i like to be productive, so i like to be out and dont bother saying "well you shouldnt be out, then." ok so you wanna hear the story, While I was coming back from volunteering as an EMT I got into an MVA on the LIE. I'm a caring person who cares about people but now who cares for me, no one. Btw I'm not your "student" so you have no right to judge me based on my knowledge. Mods just close this forum, I'm tired of this.
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Old 05-21-2013, 8:32 AM
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Bottom line to the whole issue is a two word answer... CONTROL OPERATOR... Where is the control operator of the repeater??.. Shut it down on them and they will leave... It's been done a million times and it works.. Take the toy from the child and they get bored and leave..
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Old 05-21-2013, 9:43 AM
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Default Chaos on NYC/LI ham repeaters, whats going on?

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Bottom line to the whole issue is a two word answer... CONTROL OPERATOR... Where is the control operator of the repeater??.. Shut it down on them and they will leave... It's been done a million times and it works.. Take the toy from the child and they get bored and leave..
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Now, that's what I'm talking about!

These repeater owners just aren't living up to their responsibilities. I agree with you 100%!
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Old 05-21-2013, 12:33 PM
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Default Chaos on NYC/LI ham repeaters, whats going on?

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Originally Posted by DaveNF2G View Post
As an educator, I expect the student to bear some of the responsibility for learning.



I am not picking a fight. If you are somebody special, or have special needs, then you are being unfair by springing this information after somebody steps on your toes. Give the rest of the world a break. Tell us about yourself up front so we can adjust. Otherwise, you can expect to be bruised once in a while by being treated as though you were normal.
Really Dave??? He is in here trying to learn. You really need to chill out and get over your self...... You're not educating any one acting like a jerk, if anything you're discouraging them.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:43 PM
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Kc2obw and Jim,

I personally want to thank the both of you for helping. Unfortunately to some people I'm not a "normal" person because I'm injured. I guess dave should go and tell that to all the soldiers who are coming back disabled and all the public safety personal who are disabled because they serve the communities and obtain injuries from it. I should take a "bruise" now and then because I'm on an Internet forum that's supposed to helpful but instead has people like Dave who are judgmental, arrogant and stubborn. Clearly I don't know how he could ever be an educator with a personality like that but I'm not surprised. I could see from another thread that got shut down yesterday that disabled people are the rudest people on earth according to him. So I guess he has backstory to attitude towards me, makes sense.
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Old 05-21-2013, 1:39 PM
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Getting back on topic....

Has anyone tried to contact the repeater owners? Obviously the repeater owner should keep tabs on what's going out over the air, but I've known some repeater ops that stay busy and don't monitor their own machines very often. The repeater op should have the ability to shut down a machine remotely either via OTA, backbone link, or telephone link.

Danny, in case you're not aware of it, ham radio is mostly self-policed but enforcement of the rules comes down to the FCC. If you happen to catch the call sign of the repeater(s) mentioned, look up the call sign on either QRZ or FCC database and see if there's contact information for the operator. A well worded and well thought out email to the repeater owner might make them aware of the situation. That's of course if the owner isn't already aware of the situation and just doesn't care. If that's the case, and you (or someone else) wishes to proceed further up the chain you could contact the local ARRL Official Observer or closest FCC field office and put in a complaint. Logs of times, call signs, and audio recordings of the violations will help backup the complaint. Will it help? Maybe, maybe not. But at least someone is doing something about it.

Also Danny, since you're considering getting your ham license, keep in mind there is more to ham radio than VHF/UHF repeaters. Getting your license (as well as upgrading to General or Extra) opens up all kinds of communications other than repeaters. The HF bands and 6 meters offers lots of great choices from voice and CW (Morse Code) contacts, and various digital modes. I'd encourage you to not be discouraged by what you hear on the local repeaters and continue to pursue getting your license if you're interested in the hobby.

Good luck!
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