Albany DPS RID collection

[DaveNF2G]

I have identified 409 individual RIDs on Albany's DPS trunked system (BB37).

Many IDs are not too explicit. I have a lot that are recorded as having been used by multiple Albany Police units, for example. On the other hand, I have identified the RIDs for all of Albany FD's front line apparatus, two reserve engines, two reserve trucks, the battalion cars, and many portables. There are also numerous OGS, NYSP, SUNY PD and other radios identified.

If anyone has information about the RIDs on this system I would appreciate seeing it. Confidentiality is assured.

I would also like to know what the most recent breakdown of Albany PD is by functions (since the North station was closed). For example, a colleague at my work says that APD patrols are divided into Uptown (100s) and Downtown (200s). My monitoring indicates more granularity than that. I have heard commanders refer to Center and South units.

I have also seen and heard units whose functions are a mystery to me - 681, 776, some 330s and a few others. More info would be greatly appreciated.

I recently updated the RRDB talkgroup list for this system. I have found information about a few more missing TGIDs, but I have not submitted them because I have not seen them active yet. They might be old assignments that are no longer valid. I plan to observe the talkgroup timestamping for a few more days to figure out whether any listed (or unlisted) talkgroups are deprecated, after which I will submit another update.

One other thing while I'm thinking about it. I have been able to identify the TGs that APD refers to as Police 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 7. I don't know which is Police 6 or what other "channel" numbers might be assigned.

[EDIT] By "seen" I mean that the units have appeared on my scanner or computer screens.

 

[lafd55]

APD units are organized into South (2XX) and Center Units (1XX). I know 33Xs are K-9, for the others I couldn't help you.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Thanks for that. It correlates with what I've been hearing.

 

[lafd55]

BTW, the Database for Albany is pretty up to date because it was built by someone who has worked for communications and the fire department.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Well, partly anyway. CC2F is totally incorrect except for the frequencies. However, the unit number info in the Wiki is mostly correct. Just a few outdated references to units that either no longer exist or have been renamed.

 

[FDNY10-75]

CC2F info is correct, but it is a hybrid (IIi) system but the only type I id's are for data/telemetry and no one listens to data which is why it's listed as a type II in the DB. None of the info in the Wiki is out of date either.

 

[DaveNF2G]

All voice communication is IIi on subfleet 600-13. That is per Trunker, which shows exactly the same data as Motorola System Monitor. The Type II talkgroups listed are not in use. There might have been a plan to convert the system to Type II, but such plan has never been implemented. Probably for the same reason that the DPS system is not digital yet - $$$.

A scanner can pretend that the system is Type II, but that is not what is actually happening there.

The Wiki shows NEU units which are now CRU. I forget what else I saw that was questionable. And perhaps that is what I should have said instead of "outdated." My apologies for being so pointedly critical. Bad day.

 

[FDNY10-75]

All voice communication is IIi on subfleet 600-13. That is per Trunker, which shows exactly the same data as Motorola System Monitor. The Type II talkgroups listed are not in use. There might have been a plan to convert the system to Type II, but such plan has never been implemented. Probably for the same reason that the DPS system is not digital yet - $$$.

A scanner can pretend that the system is Type II, but that is not what is actually happening there.

The Wiki shows NEU units which are now CRU. I forget what else I saw that was questionable. And perhaps that is what I should have said instead of "outdated." My apologies for being so pointedly critical. Bad day.

Dave,

Try programming CC2F as a type II in your radio, I assure you that the listed talkgroups are in use and 600-13 is erroneous. I am watching units use both the streets and water tgs as I type (They are street UIDs on Streets and Water UIDs on Water). The ONLY type I talkgroups in the system are for data & water department telemetry. Everything else is type II as listed.

The DPS system will be digital within a year, as part of the County's plan for a Countywide 800mhz system.

NEU units are Neighborhood Engagement Units and that information is correct. NEU was formerly the SDU (Strategic Deployment Unit) and is composed of bike & foot patrols. CRU (separate) is the Community Response Unit, the vice/narcotics guys that you hear conducting 'surveillance' when they do buy/busts.

 

[DaveNF2G]

I work with a guy who contradicts what you say about CRU. He says that all 500-series units are CRU and that they are assigned to neighborhood beats. Much of the dispatching that I have heard tends to confirm this. Those units respond to calls along with the Center and South patrols. The units I have heard on the listed "CRU" talkgroup doing surveillance have been detectives with 400-series numbers. (My coworker's son is an APD detective, so I thought maybe he had some inside info. I am simply confused now. The coworker is on vacation for the rest of the year - ain't State employment grand? - so I can't ask him any more for a while.)

My information about the Type IIi system is not erroneous. When I set it up as Type II with Trunker, the program throws a warning message as soon as it receives a transmission in that block stating that the block is Type IIi, then corrects the fleetmapping to ------DD. After that, the only group that shows is 600-13, or decimal 58088, on every single voice transmission on the system. The Type code for every channel grant is H (for Hybrid). The INTRAC units blast away on 600-1, except for one RID that makes occasional I-Call transmissions.

(For those who might not remember, Trunker is the granddaddy of Motorola trunktracking scanners. The first TTs were, it was said at the time, based on Trunker's methods. If that is the case, then I am mystified as to why newer scanners seem to have lost some of Trunker's capabilities. The only reason the CC2F system is an issue is because the Home Patrol appears to have a bug.)

I don't know where the Type II info (for CC2F) came from. But it does not match what is actually happening on the system or the data being presented via the control channel.

I'll believe the digital (for BB37) when I see it. They've been "just about to" go digital for at least a couple of years already. I heard from someone inside the Department a while ago that the federal grant money ran out before they could finish the job and they have been unable to attract any more free money.

It's hard to convey mood via keyboard, so let me take this opportunity to clarify that, while I am arguing, I am not trying to be rude or dismissive. I am trying to reconcile contradictory information being received via various sources. I am also trying to assess which sources are most credible so that I can select as accurately as possible among conflicting data. What I have monitored personally, using equipment of established reliability, I classify as "facts." Any source that contradicts factual data is suspect, or at least the information the source offers is suspect.

And yes, I am frustrated. I'm probably not the only one.

So, please, let's continue to hash this out if we can and reach an accurate resolution. I'm not mad, and I hope nobody else gets mad, either.

 

[FDNY10-75]

I work with a guy who contradicts what you say about CRU. He says that all 500-series units are CRU and that they are assigned to neighborhood beats. Much of the dispatching that I have heard tends to confirm this. Those units respond to calls along with the Center and South patrols. The units I have heard on the listed "CRU" talkgroup doing surveillance have been detectives with 400-series numbers. (My coworker's son is an APD detective, so I thought maybe he had some inside info. I am simply confused now. The coworker is on vacation for the rest of the year - ain't State employment grand? - so I can't ask him any more for a while.)

My information about the Type IIi system is not erroneous. When I set it up as Type II with Trunker, the program throws a warning message as soon as it receives a transmission in that block stating that the block is Type IIi, then corrects the fleetmapping to ------DD. After that, the only group that shows is 600-13, or decimal 58088, on every single voice transmission on the system. The Type code for every channel grant is H (for Hybrid). The INTRAC units blast away on 600-1, except for one RID that makes occasional I-Call transmissions.

(For those who might not remember, Trunker is the granddaddy of Motorola trunktracking scanners. The first TTs were, it was said at the time, based on Trunker's methods. If that is the case, then I am mystified as to why newer scanners seem to have lost some of Trunker's capabilities. The only reason the CC2F system is an issue is because the Home Patrol appears to have a bug.)

I don't know where the Type II info (for CC2F) came from. But it does not match what is actually happening on the system or the data being presented via the control channel.

I'll believe the digital (for BB37) when I see it. They've been "just about to" go digital for at least a couple of years already. I heard from someone inside the Department a while ago that the federal grant money ran out before they could finish the job and they have been unable to attract any more free money.

It's hard to convey mood via keyboard, so let me take this opportunity to clarify that, while I am arguing, I am not trying to be rude or dismissive. I am trying to reconcile contradictory information being received via various sources. I am also trying to assess which sources are most credible so that I can select as accurately as possible among conflicting data. What I have monitored personally, using equipment of established reliability, I classify as "facts." Any source that contradicts factual data is suspect, or at least the information the source offers is suspect.

And yes, I am frustrated. I'm probably not the only one.

So, please, let's continue to hash this out if we can and reach an accurate resolution. I'm not mad, and I hope nobody else gets mad, either.

Regarding NEU & CRU - The information your colleague gave you is incorrect. NEU (Neighborhood) beats are 501-531. CRU (Narcotics) are 430-449. I have firsthand knowledge of this. I can't argue it any other way although there may be information on the official APD website.

Regarding the CC2F system, I stand by what I said despite the evidence that you have collected via UniTrunker. It is a Type IIi system with all but a few Type II talkgroups, the Type Is are for Data/Telem. I have some data that I can email you to further convince you. As I said, I have first hand knowledge of the operation of that system.

BB37 (Or I should say Albany DPS) will be 'absorbed' by the County's new 800mhz digital system, upgrades to the infrastructure are already in progress. It was paid for with a DHS grant to the County (not the City).

Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[lafd55]

Dave, you can't always be right....

 

[DaveNF2G]

Regarding NEU & CRU - The information your colleague gave you is incorrect. NEU (Neighborhood) beats are 501-531. CRU (Narcotics) are 430-449. I have firsthand knowledge of this. I can't argue it any other way although there may be information on the official APD website.

As I thought about this after a good night's sleep, it became obvious to me that a NEU would behave exactly as I have observed. I came online to say so. I apologize for being intransigent last night and I wish I could have retracted my remarks before you saw them.

Regarding the CC2F system, I stand by what I said despite the evidence that you have collected via UniTrunker. It is a Type IIi system with all but a few Type II talkgroups, the Type Is are for Data/Telem. I have some data that I can email you to further convince you. As I said, I have first hand knowledge of the operation of that system.

It is hard to dispute evidence from someone with actual knowledge. Trunker interprets the CC data directly and insists that what I posted earlier is the actual operation of the system. However, in order to scan this system with a Home Patrol, one must set it up the way you (and the RRDB) describe.

BB37 (Or I should say Albany DPS) will be 'absorbed' by the County's new 800mhz digital system, upgrades to the infrastructure are already in progress. It was paid for with a DHS grant to the County (not the City).

Something my law enforcement friend might not have known. That clears up that situation.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thank you, and I will remind myself to phrase any further queries as questions and not challenges. I appreciate your patience.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Dave, you can't always be right....

True, but I can be sure.

Anyway, see above reply.

 

[jgorman21]

Albany Systems

There are old queries out there if you Google them where I had questioned this very topic on Albany DPS. It changed a long time ago.

All this information is very helpful and the goals should all be the same. To put the best info on RR and to share information in professionally as possible. Most of the time this happens.

Thank you everyone for all the insights and efforts. I will check this info out and give these ID's a listen and a look. I had at one point written a bunch down, but had stopped.

 

[mkirker]

Dave and Others,
I don't monitor Albany Public Safety but I do have them programmed in my Pro-106 and PSR 500. How do I see the RID's you are mentioning and where on RR did you post them? Also, do I need to program both public safety trunk systems listed on RR? I may be able to call my dispatcher friend and get a list of what units are assigned where. The posts here got confusing, what units #s or special assignment units are you having a problem ID'ing? If I get a list I will ask about those specific units or assignments

Mark
Clifton Park NY

 

[mkirker]

I mean where on my radios do I see the RID #s

Mark

 

[DaveNF2G]

There is an Extended setting for the PSR-500/600 to display radio IDs on group calls.

 

[mkirker]

Dave - I called Albany Pd who broke the units down like this:
100 - Central station
200 - South Station
300 - Traffic, K-9 and Mounted
400 - Detective Division
500- NEU, Lark St patrol, and bar cops etc
600 - Municipal housing
700 - communications
I will check on specific unit numbers that confuse you (681, 776, 330s) do you have others????

Mark

 

[lafd55]

Mark, if you look into the Wiki in the Database everything is there.

 

[DaveNF2G]

I have a pretty good breakdown now, with a little anonymous "inside" help.