Uhf t-band give back

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FDNY216

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Any updates on the UHF T Band give back

I wonder how this is going to possible with all NYC on it
Not to mention FDNY was the most recent to move up to the T Band 6.25 split
 

ff026

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Hah! Never gonna happen!

FDNY is not on 6.25 split their frequencies are centered on 6.125 channel centers.
 

mmckenna

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Any updates on the UHF T Band give back

Government pipe dream. I agree, it'll either never happen, or be so far out that none of us will remember.

Way too huge a project, way too much impact on public safety users. Just look at how long it's taken to get the Nextel/800MHz rebanding done (it isn't), something like 15 years or more that it's been talked about, and it's still not complete.

Now they want to do the same thing on 900MHz.

No public safety agency on T-band can afford to replace every single piece of radio equipment. That means it'll be up to the government or who ever wins the auction for that spectrum to pay for moving them. Just look at how well that's gone for 800MHz. Motorola, the attorneys and everyone else will get filthy rich off it (again).
 

FrankRaffa

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I don't understand why they just can't allocate the new spectrum to everyone else and let public safety stay where they are. Why force government to spend all that money unless it's Motorola and Ericsson pushing for it.
 

mmckenna

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I don't understand why they just can't allocate the new spectrum to everyone else and let public safety stay where they are. Why force government to spend all that money unless it's Motorola and Ericsson pushing for it.


Ding! We have a winner.

I was involved in the 800MHz rebanding. I had about 10 Motorola guys show up to the "kick off meeting". There were two engineers, a project manager for the actual "rebanding" part. There were 7 sales people, regional managers, sales managers, sales engineers and a rep from the local Motorola shop. Their main push was not to simply reband my system, but more importantly to "up-sell" me to Quantars, a new controller, new portables, new mobiles, etc.

Funny how Motorola built and sold the IDEN system that Nextel used that was causing all the interference to public safety users. Funny how Motorola built and sold a majority of the 800MHz trunked radio systems that were needed to be rebanded because of the Nextel system. Funny how Motorola also had the job of upgrading all those IDEN systems when those pesky public safety users got off "their" spectrum.

I was involved with the lawyers hammering out the details, recording every minute of work they put into the details and then recharging all that back to Nextel.

It was a boondoggle of epic proportions that went into the Billions of dollars. In fact, it's still going on right now. NexTel/iDen is long gone in this area, yet the juggernaut is still going.

Now they want to start on 900MHz so the guys who originally started NexTel can build out a new "Nextel like" system based off, -you guessed it- Motorola MotoTrbo. And all you old time 900MHz systems need to get out of the way. Here, Motorola will help you with that.

T-Band, guess how this one is going to work out?

Sorry for the rant. I had to witness this all happening from the inside. It was a huge scam and a lot of people got rich off it.
 

fvchief

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Ding! We have a winner.

I was involved in the 800MHz rebanding. I had about 10 Motorola guys show up to the "kick off meeting". There were two engineers, a project manager for the actual "rebanding" part. There were 7 sales people, regional managers, sales managers, sales engineers and a rep from the local Motorola shop. Their main push was not to simply reband my system, but more importantly to "up-sell" me to Quantars, a new controller, new portables, new mobiles, etc.

Funny how Motorola built and sold the IDEN system that Nextel used that was causing all the interference to public safety users. Funny how Motorola built and sold a majority of the 800MHz trunked radio systems that were needed to be rebanded because of the Nextel system. Funny how Motorola also had the job of upgrading all those IDEN systems when those pesky public safety users got off "their" spectrum.

I was involved with the lawyers hammering out the details, recording every minute of work they put into the details and then recharging all that back to Nextel.

It was a boondoggle of epic proportions that went into the Billions of dollars. In fact, it's still going on right now. NexTel/iDen is long gone in this area, yet the juggernaut is still going.

Now they want to start on 900MHz so the guys who originally started NexTel can build out a new "Nextel like" system based off, -you guessed it- Motorola MotoTrbo. And all you old time 900MHz systems need to get out of the way. Here, Motorola will help you with that.

T-Band, guess how this one is going to work out?

Sorry for the rant. I had to witness this all happening from the inside. It was a huge scam and a lot of people got rich off it.
Whenever I hear Nextel/Starcom chatter, I think........ "SkyNet was designed to protect us, but that's when the machines took over "
 

FDNY216

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The politicians are getting the pockets filled from the companies

Got to love it the fox always gets the lamb on his plate

In other countries you have wolves running things and when they go for the lamb it's messy

Here we have foxes running things they trick the people so they can feed$$$

Sadly who pays the public safety people who rely on the T BAND

My gut tells me it might never happen there is not enough channels in the other bands and also take into consideration NYPD radios work well in dwellings and tight spots in the city where others frequencies fail


Back to my rant what does the fox and the Wolf have in common the answers is they are both from the dog family and the politician are distant relatives of the fox and the wolf. And we are the shee-People
 

ansky

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All these radio systems are a scam to taxpayers. It reminds me of Montclair, NJ. This town of only 40k residents maintains a conventional system, a town trunked system, and now is also on the state system. They started out conventional and had some dead spots, so they were sold a digital trunked system. Ooops, that system had problems too. So then they had to go on the county system. All 3 radio systems are actively used. I can't imagine how much it's costing the town to maintain all that.
 

RBFD415

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Well to complete the circle - if you will......how many little communities in the NJ/NY area fell into the Nextel trap? They had working radio systems- UHF & VHF, yet were sold a boatload of hype about interoperability and how Nextel was the answer. Every year they added more & more Nextel units as people clamored for them. I would have loved to see some of the Nextel bills these towns ran up, all the while maintaining the existing conventional systems! Talk about lack of accountability to the taxpayers!

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mmckenna

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Well to complete the circle - if you will......how many little communities in the NJ/NY area fell into the Nextel trap? They had working radio systems- UHF & VHF, yet were sold a boatload of hype about interoperability and how Nextel was the answer. Every year they added more & more Nextel units as people clamored for them. I would have loved to see some of the Nextel bills these towns ran up, all the while maintaining the existing conventional systems! Talk about lack of accountability to the taxpayers!

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That almost happened here at work. We had a few hundred NexTel handsets and they were marginally useful.
They started sniffing around our PD and wanted to sell them on this. They went as far as donating a couple of tone remote type desk sets tied to a Motorola mobile NexTel RF deck. They were really putting the moves on our Chief and he was buying it all. He kept talking about all the money he was going to save by not having to support the VHF system.
It took a lot of work, but I was finally able to get through to him. Explained what happened if the Nextel site we had went down. Sales guys said they'd "Fly in a C.O.W." for us. Yeah, right....

I recycled boxes and boxes of old NexTel handsets.
 

FDNY216

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Motorola use to be good back in the old days 60's and 70's
But like anything else quality went down case and point the saber speaker Mics the cords crumble after a few years

I would never buy Motorola again vertex has my vote NYPD uses them minus the Motorola BS


Got to love greed and capitalism!!!!!!!!!
 

12dbsinad

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T band give back will never happen! NYPD for example has a UHF system that works damn good, and they are NOT replacing it. Why fix something that isn't broken? Do you think they are just going to say, "here, take my T band, it sucks for our mission critical voice system anyway". NO! And a lot of others won''t either!

It boils down to one thing... and one thing only. MONEY. It's sad that money overpowers what is right and works as much as it does. Especially when it deals with Public Safety and our own government.

Wasn't the FCC founded to "govern" the RF spectrum that was a free resource equally to everyone? Now look at what it is today. It's a business, a cut throat, who has the most money, you need to vacate your frequencies because we will make millions, business.
 

newsnick175

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Our wonderful democratic form of government has been taken over by greedy lobbyists [Remember Ike's speech about the "military, industrial complex"?] and corrupt politicians who must collect money to fund their re-election campaigns. [vote for term limits] All government spending is controlled by them. The FCC is just the cash cow of the moment.
It remains to be scene how much clout NYC has to spare it the disaster of loosing the T-Band. It was part of the force that pushed back on earlier dead lines to yield the band, hopefully it can beat back the GREED.
 

brscomm

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New York is not alone. Boston, Chicago and Los Angeles also have huge investments in T-band. I agree, the take-back will fail because there isn't any equivalent spectrum out there.
 

kd0fmg

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Ding! We have a winner.

I was involved in the 800MHz rebanding. I had about 10 Motorola guys show up to the "kick off meeting". There were two engineers, a project manager for the actual "rebanding" part. There were 7 sales people, regional managers, sales managers, sales engineers and a rep from the local Motorola shop. Their main push was not to simply reband my system, but more importantly to "up-sell" me to Quantars, a new controller, new portables, new mobiles, etc.

Funny how Motorola built and sold the IDEN system that Nextel used that was causing all the interference to public safety users. Funny how Motorola built and sold a majority of the 800MHz trunked radio systems that were needed to be rebanded because of the Nextel system. Funny how Motorola also had the job of upgrading all those IDEN systems when those pesky public safety users got off "their" spectrum.

I was involved with the lawyers hammering out the details, recording every minute of work they put into the details and then recharging all that back to Nextel.

It was a boondoggle of epic proportions that went into the Billions of dollars. In fact, it's still going on right now. NexTel/iDen is long gone in this area, yet the juggernaut is still going.

Now they want to start on 900MHz so the guys who originally started NexTel can build out a new "Nextel like" system based off, -you guessed it- Motorola MotoTrbo. And all you old time 900MHz systems need to get out of the way. Here, Motorola will help you with that.

T-Band, guess how this one is going to work out?

Sorry for the rant. I had to witness this all happening from the inside. It was a huge scam and a lot of people got rich off it.

That is funny. However, Sadly that is the honest truth. Motorola is nice and snuggled up in bed with the FCC watching a romantic movie while they fall asleep surrounded by stacks of money from the tax payers that has been extorted through careful planning and execution.
 

ecps92

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And lets keep in mind. Congress said "Public Safety", can't answer for the other T-Band Regions, but up here in New England there are plenty of Business users of T-Band

Another waste of Tax Dollars

New York is not alone. Boston, Chicago and Los Angeles also have huge investments in T-band. I agree, the take-back will fail because there isn't any equivalent spectrum out there.
 

Septa3371CSX1

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I can't see NYPD moving their dispatch operations to a 700 MHz trunked system. When I've been in range of NYPD signals their channels are always very active. I don't think a trunked system (on any band) would work for them since they're served with protecting a city of 8 million residents (plus the millions who work, visit, etc). With the investment made into the conventional UHF-T system I don't seem them leaving it behind.

I seriously doubt T-band will be completely given up by any user groups. I don't even see my own county (Delaware County, PA) moving off their UHF-T radio system anytime soon.
 

ansky

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I can't see NYPD moving their dispatch operations to a 700 MHz trunked system. When I've been in range of NYPD signals their channels are always very active. I don't think a trunked system (on any band) would work for them since they're served with protecting a city of 8 million residents (plus the millions who work, visit, etc). With the investment made into the conventional UHF-T system I don't seem them leaving it behind.

I seriously doubt T-band will be completely given up by any user groups. I don't even see my own county (Delaware County, PA) moving off their UHF-T radio system anytime soon.

The NYPD has over 35,000 officers. The cost to replace all those radios (portables, mobile, dispatch, etc.) would be astronomical.
 

Voyager

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The NYPD has over 35,000 officers. The cost to replace all those radios (portables, mobile, dispatch, etc.) would be astronomical.

That's why they were given years advance notice.

And scps, the FCC couldn't give a rat's rear about business users. To them, a business is just a taxpayer who has money left over to spend on new radios.
 

kayn1n32008

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... The cost to replace all those radios (portables, mobile, dispatch, etc.) would be astronomical.


It's only taxpayer dollars... Cities/states/countries never seem to run out of those... What's $35M, for subscribers, between friends. Really it's a drop in the bucket for a city that size. Considering the sate wanted to spend $1B for an Opensky system...


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