RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > U.S. Regional Radio Discussion Forums > New York Radio Discussion Forum


New York Radio Discussion Forum - Forum for discussing Radio Information in the State of New York.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2016, 11:16 AM
MegaHertz315's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Central/Upstate NY
Posts: 178
Default Oneida County VHF P25 Trunking?

It appears that Oneida County is gearing towards a VHF P25 digital phase II trunking system. With a transition date to the new system to be around December 2018/ January 2019.

ULS Application - Public Safety Pool, Trunked - 0007104825 - ONEIDA, COUNTY OF

I find this odd since Oneida County falls under the Central NY Interoperable Communications Consortium, and the remaining counties in this consortium are all on UHF.

Defeats the purpose of interoperability, doesn't it?
__________________
Len
Central/ Upstate New York

Last edited by KC2CNY; 01-23-2016 at 11:31 AM..
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2016, 7:50 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 72
Default

Hope fully onieda will get smaller talk goups than onondaga has . So you can do more selective monitoring .
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2016, 8:05 PM
Member
   
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,131
Default

Unless they go toward harris or motorola equipment which is dual or all band since majority if not all phase 2 equipment is dual band or all band by harris and motorola now. So defeating interop unlikely.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2016, 8:27 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bletchley Park
Posts: 1,513
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptolemy9200 View Post
since majority if not all phase 2 equipment is dual band or all band by harris and motorola now.
Actually I'd say it's the other way around - lots of deployments of Phase 2 are not dual/multiband.

Motorola APX1000, APX4000, APX6000 are singe band Phase 2 capable.

Harris XG-15 and XG-75 are single band Phase 2 capable.

When deploying 100s or 1000s of radios, the price different between single band and multiband gets quite large
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2016, 9:35 PM
Septa3371CSX1's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Drexel Hill, PA
Posts: 1,025
Default

It's possible that Oneida looked at UHF first and there weren't enough frequencies available so they went with VHF. Also most of Oneida County is already using VHF thus agencies could begin purchasing new radios now that would work on the new system when it gets deployed.

Will be interesting to see if Rome and the Utica area will stay on their separate systems or possibly move to this new system.
__________________
Joe Butler
Pro 95, Pro 97, Pro 106, Pro 651, Pro 668, & PSR 310 - Scanning the Delaware Valley!
Septa3371CSX1@aol.com
Victory5318@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2016, 12:00 AM
MegaHertz315's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Central/Upstate NY
Posts: 178
Default

A little more info on the system:

http://www.ocgov.net/oneida/sites/de...ntServices.pdf

"...to enhance coverage and system performance within the county as well as
improving interoperability with neighboring counties and emergency response agencies."

"...including new hardware, infrastructure and subscriber units to cover the Cities of Rome and
Utica and the Town of New Hartford."

Improving interoperability with neighboring counties. That's a good one. The county to your north is UHF, county to your south is UHF, and the county to your west is UHF. And some fire departments that respond to both counties (example: Cleveland, West Leyden, city of Oneida, etc.) would need a VHF radio and UHF to cover each of the counties.

And as far as them purchasing new radios now that would work on the new system when it gets deployed....... Onondaga went from lowband & 800 to UHF. Oswego went from 800 to UHF. Cayuga went from lowband to UHF. Yes the transition may be a bit easier, but the whole concept and purpose is INTEROPERABILITY.
__________________
Len
Central/ Upstate New York

Last edited by KC2CNY; 01-24-2016 at 12:12 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2016, 9:12 AM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Central New York
Posts: 325
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Septa3371CSX1 View Post
It's possible that Oneida looked at UHF first and there weren't enough frequencies available so they went with VHF.
That wouldn't surprise me at all being i spent over 2 years trying to get 1 UHF channel for SAR. I am still trying to get a second frequency but cannot seem to find any free. Most of the CNY counties have alot of UHF channels tied up. This is why all of CNY SAR teams are still basically on VHF primarily (that and finding free dual band radios are slim to none)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2016, 9:25 AM
Septa3371CSX1's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Drexel Hill, PA
Posts: 1,025
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC2CNY View Post
A little more info on the system:

http://www.ocgov.net/oneida/sites/de...ntServices.pdf

"...to enhance coverage and system performance within the county as well as
improving interoperability with neighboring counties and emergency response agencies."

"...including new hardware, infrastructure and subscriber units to cover the Cities of Rome and
Utica and the Town of New Hartford."

Improving interoperability with neighboring counties. That's a good one. The county to your north is UHF, county to your south is UHF, and the county to your west is UHF. And some fire departments that respond to both counties (example: Cleveland, West Leyden, city of Oneida, etc.) would need a VHF radio and UHF to cover each of the counties.

And as far as them purchasing new radios now that would work on the new system when it gets deployed....... Onondaga went from lowband & 800 to UHF. Oswego went from 800 to UHF. Cayuga went from lowband to UHF. Yes the transition may be a bit easier, but the whole concept and purpose is INTEROPERABILITY.
I would think agencies that regularly run mutual aid into neighbouring counties would possibly get dual band radios. I know that's what they're doing in a few PA counties.
__________________
Joe Butler
Pro 95, Pro 97, Pro 106, Pro 651, Pro 668, & PSR 310 - Scanning the Delaware Valley!
Septa3371CSX1@aol.com
Victory5318@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2016, 10:04 AM
DaveNF2G's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Rensselaer, NY
Posts: 8,434
Default

With patched talkgroups for mutual aid, nobody really needs a dual band radio.
__________________
David T. Stark
NF2G WQMY980 KYR7128
ARRL VE & Registered Licensing Instructor
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2016, 7:13 AM
c0untyb0y's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 282
Default you mean VHF != UHF?

this is Oneida County, where sense makes none. CNYICC? never heard of her.

FACT: there will be two separate city trunking networks. $20 on that?
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2016, 10:55 AM
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oneida County, NY
Posts: 56
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by c0untyb0y View Post
this is Oneida County, where sense makes none. CNYICC? never heard of her.

FACT: there will be two separate city trunking networks. $20 on that?
Are you saying that Rome will keep their NXDN NEXEDGE radios while Utica will maintain their EDACS 800MHz gear? That isn't how I read the RFP. But then again, your point is spot-on... this is Oneida County and interoperability is overrated.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2016, 5:48 PM
c0untyb0y's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 282
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R0am3r View Post
Are you saying that Rome will keep their NXDN NEXEDGE radios while Utica will maintain their EDACS 800MHz gear? That isn't how I read the RFP. But then again, your point is spot-on... this is Oneida County and interoperability is overrated.
what I meant by the two systems each city will have remark:
Utica will have its own independent VHF trunk network. Rome will have its own independent VHF trunking network. the county powers to be need to realize that political boundaries (and egos) need to be disregarded when it comes to this project and build out ONE trunking network for the entire county. maybe at first it's just the cities who'll use it and then eventually migrate over the remaining agencies/users to the system. perhaps there were no UHF frequencies available for the county/consultant to utilize. shouldn't it matter though that the trunk network could still integrate with the CNYICC even if it's not in the same band plan?
that and there's only $7.5 million to spend, so whatever footprint they choose it'll probably be small, reuse a lot of existing infrastructure where applicable, etc.

stay tuned. (no pun intended!)
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2016, 10:29 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Williamstown ny
Posts: 9
Default

according to the bid the system states " infrastructure and subscriber units to cover the Cities of Rome,
Utica and the Town of New Hartford." so i wonder if there on the same system be on different banks like Syracuse fire is in Onondaga
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2016, 11:49 AM
DaveNF2G's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Rensselaer, NY
Posts: 8,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by c0untyb0y View Post
this is Oneida County, where sense makes none. CNYICC? never heard of her.

FACT: there will be two separate city trunking networks. $20 on that?
I'll see your $20 and raise you the language in the RFP. Coverage of Utica and Rome is specified as a requirement. How does this support the continuation of separate systems?
__________________
David T. Stark
NF2G WQMY980 KYR7128
ARRL VE & Registered Licensing Instructor
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2016, 2:10 PM
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oneida County, NY
Posts: 56
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by c0untyb0y View Post
what I meant by the two systems each city will have remark:
Utica will have its own independent VHF trunk network. Rome will have its own independent VHF trunking network. the county powers to be need to realize that political boundaries (and egos) need to be disregarded when it comes to this project and build out ONE trunking network for the entire county. maybe at first it's just the cities who'll use it and then eventually migrate over the remaining agencies/users to the system. perhaps there were no UHF frequencies available for the county/consultant to utilize. shouldn't it matter though that the trunk network could still integrate with the CNYICC even if it's not in the same band plan?
that and there's only $7.5 million to spend, so whatever footprint they choose it'll probably be small, reuse a lot of existing infrastructure where applicable, etc.

stay tuned. (no pun intended!)
Where did you obtain the funding ($7.5M) number from? Was this a line item from the Oneida County budget or some other source? The "slow growth plan" indicates the county has already obtained state funding, and will issue two municipal bonds to complete the funding. Just wondering what source you have.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2016, 5:24 PM
c0untyb0y's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 282
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveNF2G View Post
I'll see your $20 and raise you the language in the RFP. Coverage of Utica and Rome is specified as a requirement. How does this support the continuation of separate systems?
That was past experience and history talking there. I know what the RFP claims to state and I really do hope it's only one system. Though now I feel much better after hearing the new guy at 911 talk about the coming changes in the works there. Very encouraging to hear there could be some good changes on the horizon. So maybe my cynicism is more like over reacting at this point. Time shall tell.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2016, 5:27 PM
c0untyb0y's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 282
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R0am3r View Post
Where did you obtain the funding ($7.5M) number from? Was this a line item from the Oneida County budget or some other source? The "slow growth plan" indicates the county has already obtained state funding, and will issue two municipal bonds to complete the funding. Just wondering what source you have.
heard direct from Picente's mouth Saturday:
$3.5 million state grant
$4 million county funds

and there's this:
$7.5M communications upgrade will strengthen local law enforcement - News - Uticaod - Utica, NY
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2016, 6:54 PM
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oneida County, NY
Posts: 56
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by c0untyb0y View Post
heard direct from Picente's mouth Saturday:
$3.5 million state grant
$4 million county funds

and there's this:
$7.5M communications upgrade will strengthen local law enforcement - News - Uticaod - Utica, NY
Great stuff. Thanks for the information and the link!
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2016, 2:01 AM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Williamstown ny
Posts: 9
Default

has anyone heard of any updates?
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2016, 6:21 PM
tbski's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Central NY
Posts: 42
Default

I'm on a couple working committees involved with the above build out...... It is progressing along. There is a timeline that has to be met per the grant specifications.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 2:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2015 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions