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New York Radio Discussion Forum - Forum for discussing Radio Information in the State of New York.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2017, 4:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Priority-One View Post
The court and NYPD will say it's not legal even if the FCC says it is
The FCC has no jurisdiction over someone possessing or using a scanner.
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Old 10-12-2017, 5:01 AM
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It is like carrying a concealed firearm (where it is legal). Just keep it concealed.
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Old 10-12-2017, 7:51 AM
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Just keep it concealed.

The absolute best advice, no matter what your local law is - either as a pedestrian or in a vehicle.
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Old 10-12-2017, 8:30 AM
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Originally Posted by teufler View Post
I believe an amateur radio license holder can carry and operate a scanner in new york. At least I thgink I have read this.
Even if you have read it, it is wrong. There is no exemption in the NYC (or Rochester, while we're on the subject) ordinances for hams.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:04 AM
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NYC does...or did...issue radio permits. I knew a few in the "old days" who had one, including myself. I really didn't need it (despite having three radios mounted in the car), but it was a "conversation piece" worthy of "bragging rights," if nothing else.

But the only law that I know of about radios is the NYS VTL which says, essentially, it's "unlawful" to have a radio "installed" in a car.

"Possession" of a radio is not a crime...nor even a violation...in NY as far as I know.

Absent any changes in the law, I would say that the cops think they are Dick Tracy giving someone a hard time about a radio, and are making it up as they go along.

Interesting story: the radio permit was issued by the Pistol License Section of the NYPD. It was a very impressive piece of paper to look at (sorry I didn't keep it)! Anyway, when it expired, I didn't bother renewing it. The reason being was that it required an application and renewal similar to what was required then for a Pistol Permit, as well as a vehicle inspection. After ignoring "renewal notices," they eventually sent me a Certified Letter demanding that I bring all my radios to the "Pistol License Section" at 1 Police Plaza to be "vouchered" until the permit was renewed. Yeah, right....fat chance. They didn't issue too many radio permits, so the only policy they had was what they had for pistol permits, so that would have to do.

Eventually, they got tired of sending certified letters, and just gave up, and life went on.
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Old 10-12-2017, 3:34 PM
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The absolute best advice, no matter what your local law is - either as a pedestrian or in a vehicle.
100% correct. The best way to stay off the radar is to stay under it.
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Old 10-12-2017, 9:02 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveNF2G View Post
Even if you have read it, it is wrong. There is no exemption in the NYC (or Rochester, while we're on the subject) ordinances for hams.
In cases NOT involving scanning while mobile, how does NYC and Rochester get around the "it shall not be unlawful" clause in ECPA'86 which specifically states that it SHALL NOT be unlawful to intercept radio transmissions made by police and other emergency services, etc.?

How does NYC and Rochester get around the ham federal preemption (FCC 93-410, IIRC) in cases where hams are listening by using the out of ham band frequency coverage in their ham transceivers? All non-ham frequencies programmed as receive-only. No scanners are involved, all listening is done by a licensed ham using only their ham transceiver(s).
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Old 10-12-2017, 9:25 PM
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"NYC does have a local law prohibiting the carrying of a scanner not just in your car but on your person in public."

I would have to see it to believe it.

That would make it illegal to POSSESS a radio on your person. I don't know of any law, in NYC or anywhere else, where "Criminal Possession of a Scanner" is in their criminal laws, UNLESS the "possession" is during an underlying Felony, like Robbery, etc.

The reason why NYC did/does issue permits is to be in compliance with the NYS VTL. But nothing in the state Criminal Law or NYC's Administrative Code.

If POSSESSION of a radio "CAPABLE of receiving police frequencies...," which is how the VTL is written, was the law, then EVERY worker at a construction site in NYC...or anywhere else...would be liable to arrest and prosecution, as well as every messenger service, and every cab company, etc.

After all, every Motorola, Kenwood, etc radio used by those industries are "capable" of receiving police frequencies, just as much as any "scanner" can.
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Old 10-12-2017, 9:41 PM
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I find it funny the crazy laws that exist in those cities such as banning of handguns yet, well since when did that help anyone but criminals.

The funniest part is nypd officers, or other officials being seen before using baofengs, scanners on or off duty.
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Old 10-12-2017, 9:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n1das View Post
In cases NOT involving scanning while mobile, how does NYC and Rochester get around the "it shall not be unlawful" clause in ECPA'86 which specifically states that it SHALL NOT be unlawful to intercept radio transmissions made by police and other emergency services, etc.?

How does NYC and Rochester get around the ham federal preemption (FCC 93-410, IIRC) in cases where hams are listening by using the out of ham band frequency coverage in their ham transceivers? All non-ham frequencies programmed as receive-only. No scanners are involved, all listening is done by a licensed ham using only their ham transceiver(s).
In this link, scroll to buford t post 7 months back, he cites same you say regarding fcc and ham equipment.

https://www.zipscanners.com/resource...canners-legal/
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:08 PM
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I'm not going to teach a law course here on the Forum. Suffice it to say that the ordinances in question do exist, they have nothing to do with the VTL or ECPA, New York state cannot overrule a local law (except under narrow circumstances) because of the principle of Home Rule, VTL is lawful because the states have the constitutional "police power" in all areas not preempted by federal law (equipping of motor vehicles is one of those areas), and the VTL cannot be applied to ham transceivers because the capabilities of transmitters are under the sole jurisdiction of the FCC.

The FCC does not regulate receivers except that they must operate within certain technical parameters, so a state, city or town is within its authority to restrict where and when certain receivers may be used.

Under VTL s.397 and the Rochester and NYC ordinances, there is no separate offense for actually listening to anything. The prohibitions have to do with having receivers under certain circumstances or in certain localities. However, the Penal Law does contain an eavesdropping statute that covers some of the things prohibited by ECPA. And if the local authorities believe that your monitoring is interfering in some way with their jobs, then they could charge you with OGA.

The VTL topic is in a Sticky thread somewhere in this forum and I expect the Moderators are getting close to clamping down on this discussion insofar as it has strayed onto that subject.
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:27 PM
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There is no law in NYC that prohibits possessing a scanner outside of a vehicle. Not talking about using in a crime or interfering, etc. Mere possession of a scanner is not illegal.
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:03 AM
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I live in Upstate NY and I have 2 pocket scanners and no bothers me, when am outside. I was also a volunteer fire fighter as well.
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Old 10-13-2017, 2:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ten13 View Post
I don't know of any law, in NYC or anywhere else.
In Indiana and Kentucky if you possess a scanner outside of your own home and you do not have an amateur license or permit they will take it on the spot. I saw an officer take one and place it under the wheel of his cruiser an run over it.
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Old 10-13-2017, 2:32 AM
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I would sue the Officer and the Police Department for destroying personal property.
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Old 10-13-2017, 8:47 AM
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Originally Posted by HudsonScannerGuy View Post
Are the cops really going to take your scanner if you have it out? Is it best to keep it hidden? I have been to florida and the cops don't really notice you with a scanner if your just holding it... Any thoughts?
I had a Baofeng with me in NYC last year. Nobody cared.
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Old 10-14-2017, 8:52 PM
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This is what Suffolk County issued for the several scanners in my crew car. I had over 20 yrs of them.
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:46 PM
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This is what Suffolk County issued for the several scanners in my crew car. I had over 20 yrs of them.
Thanks for posting that! Very interesting to actually see one that was issued by a PD.
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:49 AM
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I still have a permit for the State Of Michigan CD-4 (7-96) issued by Michigan State Police, signed by Michael Robinson Director.
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