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Old 01-01-2008, 6:43 PM
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Default NYPD Ranks

I'm a big fan of Barney Miller and I got a question about ranks, that's kinda confusing to me.

Speaking of Inspectors, I have a good question.

On an episode of Barney Miller, Inspector Lugar was asked to either retire or become a captain. He was assigned as captain to Captain Barney Miller's precinct (the 1-2).

He stated that he has to take orders now from Captain Miller.

Does he have to follow Miller's orders like the Detective Sgt.'s do? Also, all of the Sgt. Detectives have to be careful talking to him right? I guess they can't fight with them like they sometimes do with each other. I guess Wojo could of had trouble, not that they probably would do it, but he was only Det. III-Grade while the others were all Det Sgt.

Is there different levels of Captains?

Also in some of the episodes, an IAB Lt. kept pushing Cpt. Miller around. Doesn't Miller have any rights over him, being he's technically of higher rank?
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Old 01-01-2008, 6:51 PM
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We are talking tv shows, not REAL LIFE situations. Uniform Ranks in the NYPD are:

Patrolman
Sergeant
Lieutnenant
Captain
Deputy Inspector
Inspector
Deputy Chief (1-star)
Assistant Chief (2-stars)
Chief (3-stars)
Chief of Department (4-stars)


Detectives are given grades, 3rd being lowest to 1st being highest.
Precinct Commanders are normally Captains or Deputy Inspectors.
Detective Squad Commanders are normally Lieutenants or Captains.
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Old 01-01-2008, 8:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IW_RADIO
We are talking tv shows, not REAL LIFE situations. Uniform Ranks in the NYPD are:

Patrolman
Sergeant
Lieutnenant
Captain
Deputy Inspector
Inspector
Deputy Chief (1-star)
Assistant Chief (2-stars)
Chief (3-stars)
Chief of Department (4-stars)


Detectives are given grades, 3rd being lowest to 1st being highest.
Precinct Commanders are normally Captains or Deputy Inspectors.
Detective Squad Commanders are normally Lieutenants or Captains.
Actually, In the NYPD, Detectives are normally a Seargent (silver shield) or a Lieutenant (gold shield). IAB (Internal Affairs Bureau) officers carry a little more weight around the NYPD because most cops are afraid of being called a bad cop by IAB...
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Old 01-01-2008, 8:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentKillerx07
Actually, In the NYPD, Detectives are normally a Seargent (silver shield) or a Lieutenant (gold shield)..
What??????????? And I can assure you a Sergeant's shield is not silver.


http://www.nycpolicemuseum.org/html/...s/shields.html
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Old 01-01-2008, 11:54 PM
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Default Hmmm

I know Barney Miller is a TV show, but I wanted to see what was true and what wasn't.
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Old 01-02-2008, 2:31 AM
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Detective is not a rank it is a title. There can be ranks in in detectives such as Det. Sgt. Det. Lt. Det. Capt. . There are in NYPD 1st 2nd 3rd grade detectives.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:49 AM
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There is no such ranl as "patrolmen".

the proper rank is Police Officer.

Detective Squad Commanders are either Lt's or Sgt's. Captains assigned to the Detective Bureau cover more than 1 PDS (Precinct Detective Squad). Sgt's after a time in a Detective Squad can get the promotion to SDS (Supervisor Detective Squad) as well as Lt's (Lt Commander Detective Squad). SDS and LCDS are paid more and the pay never leaves them.

Precinct Commanders can be Captain or Deputy Inspector or Inspector.
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Old 01-02-2008, 1:08 PM
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It certainly can get confussing as "Rank" has more to do with how much you get paid vs. how much authority you really have.

For example, a PCT commander who happens to be a Captain would have more say in what goes on at his or her house then say a DI assigned to the communications division.
The PCT CO's "Boss" would be the Patrol Boro commander. For example let's take the 13th PCT (since the 12th is ficticous) currently commanded by a Capt, would report to the Patrol Boro Manhattan South PBMS commander who reports to Chief of Patrol who reports to Chief of Department who reports to the Commisioner who reports to the Mayor.

Detectives have their own chain of command that doesn't meet again until Chief of Department (Chief of Detectives reports to Cheif of Department) For this whole discussion I excluded deputies and Executive officers since they simply act in the name of their respective commander.

SOD has its own chain that meet at Chief of Patrol and IAD has its own chain that meets at Cheif of Department. Confussed???

So what am I babbling about? I guess you are looking for a straight forward answer as to who can boss who around and what I am getting at is that Rank is only one small part and that just like in the military chain of command is probably more important than rank. In otherwords a Captain being investigated by an IAD SGT. can't just order him away because that IAD SGT is acting under the authority of the IAD Chief through his chain of command. A Inspector from the Personell office couldn't show up on a scene and start ordering a Duty Captain or PCT CO around just because he outranked them. But sometimes rank does matter. A Patrol LT. who requests an ESU response can certainly dictate to a ESU SGT. when and where ESU is needed, but once they are requested to perform a service for the Patrol LT. The SGT will get to dictate to his team what personell, weapons, tools and tactics will be used.

Make sense??

In otherwords, enjoy Barney Miller, but if you think your confussed, just imagine how they TV writters must feel. The only difference is they will write to make the show fun to watch, not to educate people on the complex organization structure of the NYPD
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Old 01-02-2008, 9:19 PM
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Default NYPD Ranking System

NYPD Ranking System

Uniformed Members of the Service (MOS)

PPO/Probationary Police Officer (Police Academy Recruit)
Police Officer/Detective Your everyday "white shield" beat cop. Detectives are considered the same rank level as a police officer, but has grade "ranks" within the detective rank (see below).
Sergeant (3 blue chevrons on arm under NYPD patch)
Lieutenant (one bar)
Captain (2 bars)
Deputy Inspector (has the oak leaf insignia, same insignia a major in the Army would have)
Inspector ("The Full Bird", pretty much an Army colonel's rank insignia)
Deputy Chief (1-star chief)
Assistant Chief (2-star chief)
Chief (3-star chief)
Chief of Department (4-star chief, pretty much like the Army's general)

High Ranking (Non-Uniform) Civilian Members of the Service:

Deputy Police Commissioners (oversees department bureaus like Community Affairs, Public Information, etc.)
Police Commissioner (the P.C., the big man, runs the whole show in the Department overall)

Now there are two types of detectives:

Detective (Investigator): What you guys see on TV. Wears a suit & works out of a precinct detective squad or out of the Detective Bureau (Major Case, Special Victims, Joint Robbery Task Force, etc.) They have grade "ranks" within the detective/investigator rank.
- 3rd Grade (lowest grade - makes a bit more over a police officer's salary)
- 2nd Grade (makes a bit more over a sergeant's salary)
- 1st Grade (highest grade - makes a bit more over a lieutenant's salary & beyond)

Detective (Specialist): Detectives who specialize working a specific job (Community Affairs, ESU, Narcotics, Vice, a precinct Domestic Violence Unit, etc.)
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:27 PM
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OK....I liked the show so I'll give you my analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedPenguin
I'm a big fan of Barney Miller and I got a question about ranks, that's kinda confusing to me.
Speaking of Inspectors, I have a good question.
On an episode of Barney Miller, Inspector Lugar was asked to either retire or become a captain. He was assigned as Captain to Captain Barney Miller's precinct (the 1-2).
He stated that he has to take orders now from Captain Miller.
Does he have to follow Miller's orders like the Detective Sgt.'s do?
This scenario is somewhat based on fact. Inspector is a discretionary rank given to a Captain. It can be removed at any time. Obviously this is what happened to our good Inspector Lugar. Capt. Miller was the Commanding Officer of the squad. As a second Capt. assigned to the squad Lugar would be the Executive Officer, #2 in command. However, it departs from reality in that a Pct. Det. Sqd. would have a Lt. (or in some cases a Sgt.) in command and not a Capt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedPenguin
Also, all of the Sgt. Detectives have to be careful talking to him right? I guess they can't fight with them like they sometimes do with each other.
This would be correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedPenguin
I guess Wojo could of had trouble, not that they probably would do it, but he was only Det. III-Grade while the others were all Det Sgt.
This scenario takes some liberty...Sgts. in detecive squads are supervisors, not investigators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedPenguin
Also in some of the episodes, an IAB Lt. kept pushing Cpt. Miller around. Doesn't Miller have any rights over him, being he's technically of higher rank?
A Lt. from any unit would not be pushing a Capt. around, even figuratively. But as Comspec points out, there is the concept of chain of command. This means that everyone has a direct line of supervision. A lower ranking boss could be working at the direction of a higher ranking one. Also, bosses have enough to worry about in their own command and are generally not looking to give orders where they dont have to. Dont forget when you give an order you become responsible for the outcome. Generally a boss will direct his orders to personnel who work for him and therefore has responsibility for. There are exceptions. A perfect example would be a large detail such as NYE where a PO from the 50 Pct. might have a Sgt. from the 101 Det. Sqd. who might have a Lt. from the Police Academy and so on. But in any case, if push comes to shove rank comes first. Any boss who outranks can give an order and it must be complied with. In most cases things can be straightened out after, if appropriate.

Last edited by nyscan; 01-03-2008 at 3:51 AM..
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Old 01-03-2008, 12:12 AM
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Default Hmmm

Speaking of the show, what are those telephones called that they had, where they had a telephone with an antenna in it, and seemed to talk as if they were using a landline.
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