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Old 04-08-2014, 9:50 PM
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Default Mexican Military Holds Border Patrol at Gunpoint

WASHINGTON — Two heavily armed, camouflaged Mexican soldiers crossed
50 yards inside Arizona in January and drew their guns against U.S. Border Patrol
agents who confronted them in a tense standoff...
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Old 04-09-2014, 6:34 AM
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Mexico confirms confrontation with Border Patrol agents - latimes.com


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WASHINGTON — Two heavily armed, camouflaged Mexican soldiers crossed 50 yards inside Arizona in January and drew their guns against U.S. Border Patrol agents who confronted them in a tense standoff.....

"Heavily Armed"..... & ** "Drew" ** their guns.... & U.S. Border Patrol Agents ( In uniform ).

Solution. Border Patrol shoots Mexicans twice in the chest. Standoffs at times = Tension. The more you "Standoff" in this situation, the greater chance it is that the Border Patrol Agents could have been shot. Personal Safety comes first. Shoot aggressors.....go home safe to family. And the Mexican Government sends a message to it's soldiers....."Don't mess with the U.S. Border Patrol.


Quote:
The soldiers, who misidentified themselves to border agents, claimed to be pursuing drug smugglers, documents show.
They "Misidentified" themselves to Border Patrol Agents.

In other words......they intentionally **Misrepresented ** themselves....not misidentified....while being someplace they were not supposed to be, and they stumbled into a U.S. Border Patrol surveillance location. Right now, in reading this story, IT APPEARS to me the two guys were a "Recon" team for smugglers looking for a clear path ahead. Just my intepretation.

The U.S. Army taught me that small teams ( A single person or groups of 2 to 4 people ) , moving in a wooded area, are more likely to go unnoticed and undetected, than larger groups.

Quote:
Though gunfire was averted, the 35-minute confrontation underscored the continuing friction between the U.S. and Mexico when it comes to policing the often chaotic and violent Southwest border. It also raised questions among some U.S. officials about whether the Mexican soldiers were chasing drug smugglers, as they claimed, or protecting cartels as they used drug routes to Arizona.
With me....in this particular situation, there would have not been no 35 minute confrontation. From watching television news, I believed that the working relationship between the U.S. and Mexico was much better in terms of Law Enforcement and drug interdiction. But if the Border Patrol would have just shot the two Mexican "Soldiers", it would have set a precident....."DO NOT MESS with the U.S. Border Patrol. As reported.....the Mexican Soldiers "drew their guns". Simple solution = Bang - bang.


Quote:
"Those individuals were part of a counter-narcotics operation, which had taken place a few minutes prior on the Mexican side of the border," said Ariel Moutsatsos, minister for press and public affairs at the Mexican Embassy.
Then the Mexican Goverment ( Law Enforcement ) should have communicated with U.S. Law Enforcement ( the U.S. Border Patrol ) and advised them of the situation and LOCATION.

Quote:
"It's desert there, there are no fences, no walls," Sanchez said in explaining how the soldiers could have crossed unawares. He said the error was realized within minutes, and the soldiers returned. Their commanders spoke to U.S. officials in Tucson to explain, and it was chalked up as an error.
Well, yes I agree, mistakes happen. But they make GPS ( Global psoitioning system ) devices everyday. Mexican commanders call after an incident and explain, there is room to believe an honest mistake.



Quote:
In July 2011, the Mexican Defense Ministry confirmed that its soldiers had crossed into Texas over the Donna-Rio Bravo International Bridge. The crossing was unintentional.......
"The crossing was unintentional....."

Huh. Maybe....just Maybe.....young and inexperienced Mexican Police.

Quote:
Confronting them, "both parties drew their weapons," the report said. The Mexican soldiers were carrying what was described as "G3 long arms"
I am guessing H&K G3 Rifles.


SOME solutions. In the Military we had Ground Surveillance Radar. Here is the civilian application :


Ground Surveillance Radar | SRC, Inc.


Another way to "Be alarmed" if something is amiss : Seismic intrusion detection

http://www.smartsecsystems.com/pdf/S...System_SGS.pdf

Seismic Guard System SGS


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I just place aluminum cans under the leaves on, and along trails. Aluminum cans with "Pea Gravel" inside works well also when the aluminum can is placed in a "sapling".

Maybe I could teach the Border Patrol a thing or two.



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Last edited by ff-medic; 04-09-2014 at 7:37 AM..
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Old 04-09-2014, 8:09 AM
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Default No border security.

More reason why we need to landmine our north and south borders. Law enforcement on every level is a very lucrative business and incursions happen all the time. This one just happened to make the news.
At least we now know what the people south of our border were probably using for comms. MotoTrbo seems to be the newest thing for them as well. Time to find it weakness and exploit it.
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Old 04-09-2014, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by PACNWDude View Post
More reason why we need to landmine our north and south borders..
And Deer, Foxs, Coyotes and other game.....or an innocent civilan detonates the mines. An innocnet person killed and dead carcases are scattered over the landscape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PACNWDude View Post
Law enforcement on every level is a very lucrative business and incursions happen all the time. This one just happened to make the news. .
I question that statement....and don't belive it to be accurate. Matter of fact, I belive we need to greatly increase the number of Border Patrol Agents.

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Originally Posted by PACNWDude View Post
MotoTrbo seems to be the newest thing for them as well. Time to find it weakness and exploit it.
There is a weakness.


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Digital Speech Decoder is an open source software package that decodes several digital speech formats.
The RR.Com link I posted does not work after posting. Google = Radioreference.com DSD.

Complete Guide to Digital Speech Decoder - How to decode MOTOTRBO, P25, NXDN - YouTube


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Last edited by ff-medic; 04-09-2014 at 10:42 AM.. Reason: correct link
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Old 04-09-2014, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by PACNWDude View Post
More reason why we need to landmine our north and south borders. Law enforcement on every level is a very lucrative business and incursions happen all the time. This one just happened to make the news.
At least we now know what the people south of our border were probably using for comms. MotoTrbo seems to be the newest thing for them as well. Time to find it weakness and exploit it.
Why would anyone from Canada want to sneak in to the USA? Usually it is the other way around.. American's sneaking north for free healthcare, draft dodgers and jobs.. Canada has a much higher standard of living than the USA and as a Canadian you can live and work in the states without any hassle at all so why you think securing your northern borders is a big deal is beyond me.
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Old 04-09-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by WZ1 View Post
why you think securing your northern borders is a big deal is beyond me.
Wolves.

Some genius' decided spending millions to bring the Canadian Grey Wolf down here was a good idea. Now we have to spend millions yearly on wolf welfare.

LOL
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Old 04-09-2014, 12:52 PM
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Wolves.

Some genius' decided spending millions to bring the Canadian Grey Wolf down here was a good idea. Now we have to spend millions yearly on wolf welfare.

LOL
.. LOL .. And yeah they can just walk across the border too.. especially in Washington state and Montana etc..
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Old 04-09-2014, 2:23 PM
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It's been awhile since I've perused this website, but it had been a single site that collected news articles from across the country in regards to the US/Mexico border.
http://www.desertinvasion.us/
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Old 04-09-2014, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by PACNWDude View Post
More reason why we need to landmine our north and south borders. Law enforcement on every level is a very lucrative business and incursions happen all the time. This one just happened to make the news.
At least we now know what the people south of our border were probably using for comms. MotoTrbo seems to be the newest thing for them as well. Time to find it weakness and exploit it.
The US needs an Administration that will fly those Drones from Tijuana to Brownsville, lol.
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:12 AM
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You draw a weapon on a uniformed US Border Patrol Agent you should be dead. Unfortunately, the US Border Patrol has standing orders not to fire unless fired upon first. And even then, their duty is to retreat.

This is painfully stupid. The Mexican military is corrupt. Any person, who is on OUR side of the border, who draws a weapon against any member of a US law enforcement team should be fired upon, without hesitation. Immediate threat, immediate response. Period. Border incursions have been ongoing.

If there are operations on their side of the border and they fail to notify us, then its on them if they can't keep their people on their side of the border. Any incursion by foreign military into the USA and then a hostile move like drawing a weapon is a serious breach of diplomacy. Hell, its an act of War.

Stupid dangerous actions, even if deliberate, should have dire consequences. We're playing for keeps here, gentlemen, even if the USA hasn't figured that out yet.
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:16 AM
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Easy solution for identifying where the border is.

US Marines. Seabees. Take two D8 Cats. Drive them side by side from the Gulf to Baja, Plow a two blade wide swath where there is no fence line. ANYTHING crossing that border that isn't a wild animal, gets arrested. Makes patrolling a lot simpler too.
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Old 04-10-2014, 10:14 AM
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There have been several situations where people have tried to enter the US from Canada with explosives for instance. The Space Needle in Seattle was an intended target for one of the perps.
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Old 04-10-2014, 10:19 AM
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There have been several situations where people have tried to enter the US from Canada with explosives for instance. The Space Needle in Seattle was an intended target for one of the perps.
We they caught him did they not? Your telling me that you think its a good use of Canadian and American taxpayer funds to build a fence along one of the largest borders in the world simply to keep 1 or 2 extremists out that would find a way in anyhow? You realize the great lakes are all shared borders right? I can see from my house in the Toronto area buildings across the lake in Buffalo NY.. its not like there is a wall in the middle of the lake. Why spend all that money to build a fence between two allied countries that have a trade agreement that allows for the free flow of people, jobs and education? When I went to the US for work I got my visa at the airport.. I did not need to apply ahead like others do etc.
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Old 04-11-2014, 3:59 AM
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com501, the USBP in Arizona has been criticized recently for shooting and killing unarmed teenaged rockthrowers, who were on the south side of the fence in Mexico, instead of using their pepperball (modified paintball) guns to disperse them. When did the USBP policy you refer to go into affect?
If the USBP is shooting and killing unarmed teenaged rockthrowers, who were located on Mexican soil, those Mexican military personnel who drew their weapons against our agents on US soil, should also be dead.

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Old 04-11-2014, 7:02 AM
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Easy solution for identifying where the border is.

US Marines. Seabees. Take two D8 Cats. Drive them side by side from the Gulf to Baja, Plow a two blade wide swath where there is no fence line. ANYTHING crossing that border that isn't a wild animal, gets arrested. Makes patrolling a lot simpler too.

One outer fence, a "Bare area" then the inner fence.

----------------------------------


Quote:
Plow a two blade wide swath where there is no fence line.
You have to be talking about earlier Germany.


----------------------------------------


Security fence, a "Proper" perimeter = one outside fence, aproximately 10 feet tall, with woven razor wire on top. Then about a 16 foot dead space. Then another fence, actual perimeter fence which is 10 feet tall with woven razor wire on top. Fence is well illuminated with lights.

You can mix and match. Two fences at one perimeter location ( perimeter size and shape sometimes varies ) , or you can have just one fence. BUT, the best fence.......is the fence that an individual or group of individuals look at and say...."No way. I don' even want to think about breaking in." and not the fence that is attmepted and the tresspassers are caught.....or actually make entry.

Added security to the fence is roving patrols at irregualr times., and patrols going back over their tracks shortly just having had "been through".
Irregular patrols, and patrols at irregualr schedules make a strong deterrent, MOST ESPECAILLY if the "bad guys" or "potential threat" is watching and domumenting shift change for security, patrol times and patrol strength.

Triple security = Fence - Roving patrols at irregular times - and cameras. You can even put up "Fake" or "Bogus cameras" in an elevated position and out of reach. Make sure the cameras "Intersect each other" - overlap field of view - EX = camera one is facing north and camera two is facing east. Camera ones view overlaps into camera twos view by 10 to 15 degrees n and camera twos view overlaps camera ones view by 10 to 15 degrees. Kind of like a military weapons range card where you have "V" shaped overlapping fields of fire. One "V" intersects the other "V" ten to 15 degrees. Both cameras capture the same thing, TWICE. For those of you whom understand taking pictures at a crime scene = overlapping your photographs / picture taking, the same applys for video cameras.

Also, if cameras are at a distance from each other, try to have one camera facing or pointing at the other camera / both camera facing each other, or in view from the edge of the screen ( in certain applications ) so if one camera is sabotaged, or "Shot" at.....the perpetrators can be seen on video.

Intersecting camera angles, cameras able to view other cameras ( edge view of screen ) and other methods makes for great security and retrieval of important video information and intelligence - should the need arise.


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Old 04-11-2014, 7:08 AM
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There have been several situations where people have tried to enter the US from Canada with explosives for instance. The Space Needle in Seattle was an intended target for one of the perps.
Unless you have U.S. Border Agents evenly spaced out in the woods with thermal imaging and parabolic dish microphones......THIS would be hard to stop.


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Old 04-11-2014, 7:40 AM
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The US needs an Administration that will fly those Drones from Tijuana to Brownsville, lol.
That's the problem. This administration has no interest in stopping the flood of illegals coming into this country. They see illegals as undocumented Democrats.
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Old 04-11-2014, 8:00 AM
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Bush and dick didn't do anything ether .......
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Old 04-11-2014, 8:02 AM
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The fence that bush wasted our money on didn't stop nothing they still are coming over along with the drugs ........
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Old 04-11-2014, 8:13 AM
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The fence that bush wasted our money on didn't stop nothing they still are coming over along with the drugs ........
I thought Bush didn't do anything? The one thing Bush didn't do was release thousands of illegal immigrant criminals from prison. You can thank Obama for that one.

Report: Obama Admin Released Tens of Thousands of Illegal Immigrant Criminals
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