City Of Hickory Going OpenSky

[pboy]

Hickory CIty Council has approved the upgrading of the city's 800 MHz EDACS trunked radio system to OpenSky.

Can't find any info on when this upgrade will occur.

Enjoy listeniing to HPD while you still can!

Council Vote - See Agenda Item V. - D.

Some Details - See Agenda Item X.- B.- 2.

 

[KE4ZNR]

Interesting choice...if this does happen this will be the first known OpenSky system in NC....somehow I don't think any discussion of the state of NY was ever brought up in any of the negotiations....good luck with your new toy Hickory, methinks you are going to need it. Oh and you might want to include a couple extra grand in the budget for migraine headache asprin.
Marshall KE4ZNR

 

[FireCop]

Interesting choice...if this does happen this will be the first known OpenSky system in NC....somehow I don't think any discussion of the state of NY was ever brought up in any of the negotiations....good luck with your new toy Hickory, methinks you are going to need it. Oh and you might want to include a couple extra grand in the budget for migraine headache asprin.
Marshall KE4ZNR

You didn't mention Pennsylvania before New York! Maybe it ought to be 100 extra grand for aspirin!

 

[pboy]

In a way it makes sense to go that route.

The existing infrastructure can be used. System capacity increases without having to add a bunch of hardware. Data and voice can carry together on the same channels.

In a way it doesn't make sense.

Surrounding counties are going Motrola on VIPER. Hickory becomes a Tyco island in a Motorola sea.

Either way, new radios would have to be bought. VIPER would also eliminate major infrastructure costs.

Who knows how much if any research was done on OpenSky installs across the country.

 

[FireCop]

I agree with your rationale on both sides of the coin pboy. I wonder if the media will realize before it's too late they won't be able to listen in with any current scanner.

 

[N_Jay]

The existing infrastructure can be used. System capacity increases without having to add a bunch of hardware. Data and voice can carry together on the same channels.

Explain.

 

[pboy]

Explain.

From what I read on Tyco's website, existing EDACs systems can be converted over to OpenSky.

OpenSky uses the time domain hocus pocus, so five channels become 10 channels.

Data and voice coexist on the same channels, though I don't know what the city has in mind for data usage.

 

[Robbyboy]

There was alot of discussion in open sky in PA. There were discussions about the fact that a trooper needed assistance and couldnt get it because the location he was in was open sky and he couldnt monitor or talk. Here in Onslow County its quite common for SHP to be able to talk to both county sheriffs as well as city police as has happened here recently. Numerous other interop observations have been made such as this morning when Marine Patrol assisted the Sheriff office on a minor call. Many people can talk because of this interoperability (as much as it pains me to say for those that know me) but how many will be able to talk when this square peg is thrown into the fray of round holes?

 

[jeffmulter]

>> Many people can talk because of this interoperability (as much as it pains me to say for those that know me) but how many will be able to talk when this square peg is thrown into the fray of round holes?

First - the meeting notes refer to the proposed upgraded system as an OpenSky hybrid. I'm not sure what that means, but have noted that MA-COM is currently selling systems designed around radio equipment that works on both EDACS and P25 phase 1 systems, as well as being P25 phase 2 capable.

If Hickory proceeds with any level of MA-COM upgrade, it really doesn't change anything, in terms of interoperability. To the best of my knowledge, Hickory PD is currently the sole EDACS public safety agency in that region of N.C.

If Hickory ends up with a system that will be compatible with Viper down the road, that's a good thing.

And, they will probably still keep the VHF radios in the cars ... they never completely abandoned VHF when they went to EDACS.

The only folks who will be out-of-luck will be the folks listening to Hickory PD with a scanner ... whether they be hobbyists, media, or public safety people. HPD can always make provisions for the final group of listeners, if they feel it's necessary.

 

[N_Jay]

From what I read on Tyco's website, existing EDACs systems can be converted over to OpenSky.

Yes, by buying almost all new equipment!

OpenSky uses the time domain hocus pocus, so five channels become 10 channels.

No, 5 become 20, but ther eare lots of other isses that come into play.
(5 become 10 in 2 slot and at 900 MHz)

Data and voice coexist on the same channels, though I don't know what the city has in mind for data usage.

Yes, if your data can work at 4.8 to 19.2 KBPS (and not too much 19.2)

 

[KE4ZNR]

Yes, if your data can work at 4.8 to 19.2 KBPS (and not too much 19.2)

Jeez Louis is it really that slow? That is almost as bad as IDEN data speeds!
I mean you might as well go back to carrier pigeons for messages!
Marshall KE4ZNR

 

[KM4WLV]

Take that Voice Interoperability Plan for Emergency Responders, LOL. So much for being able to communicate between VIPER users & them. I agree, why not just jump onto VIPER & save the infastructure costs.

But then again, the radio admins couldn't play GOD so to speak.........

 

[KE4ZNR]

Take that Voice Interoperability Plan for Emergency Responders, LOL. So much for being able to communicate between VIPER users & them.

But here is the rub: Hickory will still be able to communicate with neighboring agencies on VIPER. All it takes is adding an Opensky radio to the Raytheon JPS ACU 1000 at the nearest VIPER tactical location and Hickory will be able to talk to anyone else using VIPER via a patch. Johnston County is doing this with their M/A Com EDACS Provoice system. There is a Provoice radio at the Blue Ridge Site that allows Johnston County to be able to communicate to Wake County units via a patch on the "JCC 911" Talkgroup. Is it as easy as nativly being on the system and does the audio sound as good? No, but a patch will never sound great but it is usable. So Interop will be possible between Hickory and everyone else.
Marshall KE4ZNR

 

[KM4WLV]

Ahhhhh, I didn't realize those were in use. I retract my previous statement as I take a big gulp from my glass of Shut the H*ll up, lol

 

[KE4ZNR]

Don't worry about it Daniel. I know we carelessly toss the VIPER word around alot but remember in its purest for VIPER is not "1 system" or a "Motorola Only System" but a set of rules designed so that neighboring agencies have the capability to talk to each other regardless of system type. Moto/EDACS/LTR the type does not matter as long as the State of NC & the neighbor agencies have the capability to patch or somehow connect up to the system. So in theory, I could have 2 tin cans and a length of string and be "VIPER compliant" as long as I provide a way for the State of NC and the agencies around me to access it. I know I have probably only muddled the waters furthers but I hope this
helps a little!
Marshall KE4ZNR

 

[msigmon3306]

http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=82773

 

[jthorpe]

"Moto/EDACS/LTR the type does not matter as long as the State of NC & the neighbor agencies have the capability to patch or somehow connect up to the system."---

Here is a REAL LIFE example of why I can't stand M/A-Com.

The whole point of building out these systems is to avoid the "patch" situation. If that is logical, then agencies may as well keep their old systems and patch them using an ACU-1000. I work in Johnston County. My primary radio system is Viper. Johnston County uses EDACS. I was in Clayton on New Years morning in a fight on the side of road with a guy I was trying to arrest. It was bad. I called for help and the only people who heard me were other Troopers, far away from me. There was a deputy in the store a mile away from me who didn't hear the call until 5 minutes later when our comm center called theirs. Tell me how that is a good thing because I'd like to know. If the SO calls for help, I may be right on top of them but will never know it because we have no way to communicate. The only way I can talk to Johnston is on a single talkgroup that only the dispatchers can hear. We need to be able to hear the deputies and police, and they need to hear us. That can't happen as long as they are on M/A-Com. Wish things would change.

 

[N_Jay]

. . . . . . That can't happen as long as they are on M/A-Com. Wish things would change.

WRONG!!!!!

That can't happen as long as those responsible for procuring the system do not make it a requirement!

 

[KE4ZNR]

1st off I am glad you are ok brother and you are 100% correct in saying that there should have been a way for that JCSO deputy to monitor what was going on in his backyard...that so many agencies have this issue comes down to who is in charge of said radio systems....so often those in charge have turf issues...ie: "This is my counties system and you did not purchase it so therefore you have no right to use our system!" :roll: It is sad that when it comes down to it egos are apparently worth more than the public safety personnel protecting us day in and day out...we can only hope that those in charge of Hickory have caught wind of the Opensky NY debacle and are maybe rethinking their decision...more than anything else there should be only one concern when radio systems are planned: the safety of the brave men & women who use it as a lifeline every day...
Marshall KE4ZNR

"Moto/EDACS/LTR the type does not matter as long as the State of NC & the neighbor agencies have the capability to patch or somehow connect up to the system."---

Here is a REAL LIFE example of why I can't stand M/A-Com.

The whole point of building out these systems is to avoid the "patch" situation. If that is logical, then agencies may as well keep their old systems and patch them using an ACU-1000. I work in Johnston County. My primary radio system is Viper. Johnston County uses EDACS. I was in Clayton on New Years morning in a fight on the side of road with a guy I was trying to arrest. It was bad. I called for help and the only people who heard me were other Troopers, far away from me. There was a deputy in the store a mile away from me who didn't hear the call until 5 minutes later when our comm center called theirs. Tell me how that is a good thing because I'd like to know. If the SO calls for help, I may be right on top of them but will never know it because we have no way to communicate. The only way I can talk to Johnston is on a single talkgroup that only the dispatchers can hear. We need to be able to hear the deputies and police, and they need to hear us. That can't happen as long as they are on M/A-Com. Wish things would change.

 

[jthorpe]

Marshall,

Thanks for the post. I appreciate it. Check your pm's.