RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > U.S. Regional Radio Discussion Forums > North Carolina Radio Discussion Forum

North Carolina Radio Discussion Forum Forum for discussing Radio Information in the State of North Carolina.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #921 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 7:11 AM
KE4ZNR's Avatar
KE4ZNR@radioreference.com
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 5,529
Default

Add in the fact that SHP Dispatchers use the Multi-Select feature heavily.
Meaning that if a dispatcher is responsible for SHP Troop C 3,6, &7 then that
dispatcher will keep those Districts active and will transmit over all 3.
Marshall KE4ZNR
__________________
NC/SC Forum Moderator/Database Administrator
Frequently Asked Questions
Forum Rules & Guidelines

@KE4ZNR on Twitter
http://instagram.com/KE4ZNR
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
        
  #922 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 7:33 AM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern, NC
Posts: 1,592
Default

i can understand dispatch but not like c1 cars on a c8 channel i know you have affliations on the tower and such on their channel
__________________
BCT-15
BC-72xlt
Pro-106
Reply With Quote
  #923 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 8:21 AM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 384
Default

Confused now, I retired before the 800 system. However, Troops had channels, same-same as TG today, not Districts. Now there were instances where a District from one troop might be on another troop's channel because they were closer. I think B had a District from C and A had one from B and either D or C had one of the others districts. Getting ole and can't remember. :-) I should think, according to the answer that I got in my thread from those that know, that all the Troop's units would be on the Troop TG. My radio just has the the Troop Commons and Troop MAs programmed, but they are for the whole troop not a District unique one for each. I've never used one, as the Patrolmen have TACs here in Wake County. The Districts prolly have a TG for what we used to call 3 way, since the TGs are not duplex.

Ronnie
Reply With Quote
  #924 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 9:52 AM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern, NC
Posts: 1,592
Default

idk maybe i was just thinking about dispatch calling other units with multi select
__________________
BCT-15
BC-72xlt
Pro-106
Reply With Quote
  #925 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 10:09 AM
Member
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reconrider8 View Post
i can understand dispatch but not like c1 cars on a c8 channel i know you have affliations on the tower and such on their channel
Some districts are grouped under a single channel to ease congestion on the system and make life a little easier. It seems they're using the old low band grouping scheme. Troop F for instance, lowband 7 covers districts 1, 3, & 5 while lowband 5 covers districts 2 & 4. Troopers in the odd districts stay on the district 5 TG and troopers in the even districts stay on the district 4 TG. This means that for a troopwide announcement, the TC only has to MSEL 2 channels as opposed to 5 (which would busy out all the sites).

Quote:
Originally Posted by WA4MJF View Post
Confused now, I retired before the 800 system. However, Troops had channels, same-same as TG today, not Districts. Now there were instances where a District from one troop might be on another troop's channel because they were closer. I think B had a District from C and A had one from B and either D or C had one of the others districts. Getting ole and can't remember. :-) I should think, according to the answer that I got in my thread from those that know, that all the Troop's units would be on the Troop TG. My radio just has the the Troop Commons and Troop MAs programmed, but they are for the whole troop not a District unique one for each. I've never used one, as the Patrolmen have TACs here in Wake County. The Districts prolly have a TG for what we used to call 3 way, since the TGs are not duplex.

Ronnie
Ronnie as I explained above, each district has it's own TG on the system now, but at this point in time the same lowband groups of districts stay on a single talkgroup. Each troop has a talkgroup for each district, 2 common channels, a mutual aid channel, and an HQ channel. All VIPER radios have all of the SHP mutual aid channels and all the common 2 channels. Common 1 is car-to-car traffic for troopers, common 2 is for outside agency coordination with troopers.
__________________
Chris Harris
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #926 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 10:26 AM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern, NC
Posts: 1,592
Default

ahh thanks for explaining the common tgs although i heard another trooper calling another trooper on c2 but will it change anything from now when p25 changes besize the tgids
__________________
BCT-15
BC-72xlt
Pro-106
Reply With Quote
  #927 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 10:43 AM
robkermit's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Bakersville, NC
Posts: 147
Default

Here's another thing to consider. It's possible that an employee of a certain district lives within range of the other tower. He may be turning it down and leaving it on in the charging cradle. It may also be a high ranking officer such an LT and may be listening to the officers working under him while off duty.

Many possible logical reasons why.
__________________
73's from beautiful Mitchell County, North Carolina!
Reply With Quote
  #928 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 10:57 AM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern, NC
Posts: 1,592
Default

but that would just be an affiliation wouldnt it
__________________
BCT-15
BC-72xlt
Pro-106
Reply With Quote
  #929 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 11:04 AM
KE4ZNR's Avatar
KE4ZNR@radioreference.com
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 5,529
Default

Also keep in mind that the NCSHP TGIDs will change once VIPER is migrated
to P25. Once they migrate over the TGIDs will range from 52134-52212.
I have not added them to the database yet to prevent confusion with the
4.1 TGIDs they are currently using. Once the P25 switch is imminent then
the new P25 TGIDs will be added to the database.
Marshall KE4ZNR
__________________
NC/SC Forum Moderator/Database Administrator
Frequently Asked Questions
Forum Rules & Guidelines

@KE4ZNR on Twitter
http://instagram.com/KE4ZNR
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #930 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 11:15 AM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern, NC
Posts: 1,592
Default

what else will change over that we scanner users will notice?
__________________
BCT-15
BC-72xlt
Pro-106
Reply With Quote
  #931 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 11:41 AM
GB1952's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: CUMBERLAND CO
Posts: 469
Default P-25

IM THINKING THAT ALL THE TGs IN ALL COUNTIES ON VIPER P-25 WILL CHANGE???
Reply With Quote
  #932 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 12:57 PM
KE4ZNR's Avatar
KE4ZNR@radioreference.com
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 5,529
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GB1952 View Post
IM THINKING THAT ALL THE TGs IN ALL COUNTIES ON VIPER P-25 WILL CHANGE???
Yep. Both the TGIDs and RIDs will change for each and every one of the 100 counties.
The state has a plan that puts the responsibility for maintaining TGIDs and RIDs on the
person(s) responsible for each radio system/county. Each County is given a unique block/range of TGIDs and RIDs and is responsible for maintaining that block of TGIDs/RIDs.
Example: Durham has been issued the range of TGIDs that run 16500-16999 (500 TGIDs) and the range of RIDs that run 630000-649999 (20000 RIDs). The State does not care what we call those TGIDs and RIDs as long as we let them know that TGID 16500 is "Duke 1" and that RID 638006 is assigned to "Marshall". We are responsible for the naming and usage of those TGIDs and RIDs and responsible for passing that info along to SHP/State so the System can be programmed with the appropriate designation.
Marshall KE4ZNR
__________________
NC/SC Forum Moderator/Database Administrator
Frequently Asked Questions
Forum Rules & Guidelines

@KE4ZNR on Twitter
http://instagram.com/KE4ZNR
Reply With Quote
  #933 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 1:02 PM
GB1952's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: CUMBERLAND CO
Posts: 469
Default

ok,thanks
Reply With Quote
  #934 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 1:05 PM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern, NC
Posts: 1,592
Default

so that would help out the volunteer depts and us the buy our own radios in which we wouldnt need to get permission from raleigh just to use a radio for the vfd correct? it would be put to the county
__________________
BCT-15
BC-72xlt
Pro-106
Reply With Quote
  #935 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 1:33 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 99
Default

Whoa....looks like some serious clarification is needed here...

Lets start with the local management of talk groups and radio ID's...Under the current set of circumstances, the state has been issuing ID's on a request by request basis, simply because of the way in which the 4.1 ID plan is laid out. There simply is no way to assign a "block:" of ID's to a county and then activate the ones that are actually being used when a radio is purchased and activated. With the migration to P25, although the system has the ability initially to have 128K users activated, the actual P25 database consists of ~16M possible ID's. By assigning a block to each county, we are simply providing a vastly larger than needed block, rather than choosing a small number and then having to change it down the road.

The counties will still have to provide a completed ID request form to the state for "activation" of radio(s), however rather than submitting the form to the state for an ID to be assigned, the county will now be able to go to the database and select the next available ID from the list to go with each radio serial number. A suitable alias will also have to be provided, just as it is for each radio under the current system.

Marshall makes a very good point however that what the talk group is called within the county's programming is indeed up to the county to decide, yet the state desires that there be some correllation between the local nomenclature vs the radio programming such that in the event that troubleshooting needs to be done, that it doesnt take a Thesaurus to figure out what the talk group is.

This control of naming does NOT apply when referring to talk groups that are part of the VIPER Mandatory or Recommended Basic template. Those talk groups should be named the same regardless of agency/department/county/organization, etc. since they represent the greatest common denominator amongst all users of the VIPER system. An example would be a State Event Talk Group (Alpha 1) being one of the talk groups. We have seen this be, Adam 1, Apple 1, EVTA1, Event 1, STEA1, etc....there isnt enough room here to type all the different iterations....

Talk groups are already assigned to each county, depending on the level of participation in VIPER. For those counties, such as Durham, that have a county owned system, the number of talk groups is low. For a county, such as Pender, that uses VIPER for its primary communications system, the number of talk groups is based upon an agreed upon number that addresses the county's business need. This will continue to be the case after P25 migration. A county will need to submit a request to the state to request additional talk groups and the state will assign and activate the talk groups, based upon the list of available talk group ID's in the county's specific ID plan range. Every 4.1 talk group currently in operation has an equivalent talk group already created in P25 so there is no loss of the number of talk groups to any user. Indeed as observed above, ALL of the Talk group ID's will change from their current 4.1 HEX/Decimal to a new P25 HEX/Decimal talk group.

Hope that this helps clear up the mud.

Mike


As for the request for private individuals to add radios, that has been and will remain the responsibility of the county to facilitate. It has always been our position that private individuals cannot submit a request for an ID, through their county VIPER point of contact (POC), however if a department or agency is willing to accept responsibility for an individually owned radio, and place the department's name on the ID request, we have no issue with who actually owns the radio. With this said though, the department accepts full responsibility for the radio and any repurcussions for the use (or misuse) of the radio, especially if it relates to the access of talk groups not specifically approved for use by that department/agency.
__________________
Mike Hodgson
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #936 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 2:14 PM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern, NC
Posts: 1,592
Default

with that last being said say i had a personal viper radio and i had co fire and such in it along with say event a1-4 or so and something was going on on a1 say someone was tracking a suspect in a big drug investigation could I switch channels and listen in to that on my viper radio or would i get in some serious heat even with my TX?
__________________
BCT-15
BC-72xlt
Pro-106
Reply With Quote
  #937 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 2:21 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 99
Default

My response would be this...if you have a properly authorized talk group in your radio, meaning that it is a talk group that is either a) in your local talk group authorized list or b) part of the Mandatory or Recommended Basic template, ie: State Events, etc. and you happen to listen to something on one of those talk groups and dont cause harmful or malicious interference, I see no issue...however, if you had your personally owned radio programmed with a talk group that you were NOT authrozed to have, then there would be a big problem.

This of course assumes that your "personal viper radio" was indeed an appropriately sponsored radio to begin with.

M
__________________
Mike Hodgson
Reply With Quote
  #938 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 2:37 PM
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern, NC
Posts: 1,592
Default

yea so i could pretty much go state wide listening to the search or where ever the tgid is valid in tower wise
__________________
BCT-15
BC-72xlt
Pro-106
Reply With Quote
  #939 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2014, 8:40 AM
GB1952's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: CUMBERLAND CO
Posts: 469
Default

More intercepts picking up talk group # 21392 schp trp 52 chester/fairfield co, south carolina off the spout springs tower. ALSO PICKING UP TG# 46128 SCHP YORK CO,GREAT MONITORING OFF SPOUT SPRINGS TOWER ALSO TG# 58800 CHESTER CO SHERIFF, SOUTH CAROLINA

Last edited by GB1952; 03-11-2014 at 9:04 AM.. Reason: ADD
Reply With Quote
  #940 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2014, 7:21 AM
KE4ZNR's Avatar
KE4ZNR@radioreference.com
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 5,529
Default

Good Morning,

On Wednesday, 12 March, we will be upgrading the microwave path between Eno Mountain (Hillsborough) all the way to Mayodan.
This will take many sites off the air for approximately 30 minutes to 1 hour if all goes as planned. This outage is planned to commence at 10 A.M. sharp.

The sites affected are:

Laws Orange, Caswell and Person Counties
Yanceyville Caswell County
Pelham Caswell and Rockingham County
Reidsville Rockingham County
Wentworth Rockingham County
Eden Rockingham County
Mayodan Rockingham County

NCSHP Low Band at Yanceyville
__________________
NC/SC Forum Moderator/Database Administrator
Frequently Asked Questions
Forum Rules & Guidelines

@KE4ZNR on Twitter
http://instagram.com/KE4ZNR
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
brunswick co, sticky, viper

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 7:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2011 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions