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Old 07-20-2012, 3:21 PM
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Question "Missing Something" On NC SHP Tg

Hey Guys:

If I set my Pro-106 to sit on the NC SHP District D Troop 5 Tg (The same thing happens when I'm set to scan). I will hear the dispatcher but not the Troopers. Example:

Dipatcher: Greensboro to DXXX
No Traffic
Dispatcher (A few seconds later): 10-4 DXXX

Another Example:

Dispatcher: Go-Ahead DXXX
No Traffic
Dispatcher: 10-4 DXXX
No Traffic
Dispatcher (A few seconds later): Here's you're your 10-27 readback...
No Traffic
Dispatcher: You're welcome

Sometimes I hear all traffic (Troopers and Dispatch),but generally I just hear the dispatcher.
Anybody know what's going on?
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Old 07-20-2012, 6:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8rcall View Post
Hey Guys:

If I set my Pro-106 to sit on the NC SHP District D Troop 5 Tg (The same thing happens when I'm set to scan). I will hear the dispatcher but not the Troopers. Example:

Dipatcher: Greensboro to DXXX
No Traffic
Dispatcher (A few seconds later): 10-4 DXXX

Another Example:

Dispatcher: Go-Ahead DXXX
No Traffic
Dispatcher: 10-4 DXXX
No Traffic
Dispatcher (A few seconds later): Here's you're your 10-27 readback...
No Traffic
Dispatcher: You're welcome

Sometimes I hear all traffic (Troopers and Dispatch),but generally I just hear the dispatcher.
Anybody know what's going on?
Well it is possible that the mobiles are responding on low band....yes low band still exists and is used rather often even in areas that don't need it. Second, it is possible that the mobiles are responding on viper but are accessing another tower site that you are not receiving at the time and they may be just too far away to access the site that you have tuned into at that particular time. All sites in a particular troop zone are not necessarily tied together if that makes any sense...For example, In Troop E, Salisbury, a unit may be responding on low band or Salisbury/Rowan system and I wouldn't copy his reply on the normal viper sites....The base station may simulcast on all Troop E sites if so desired, but the mobiles aren't necessarily set up like this normally.. Of course I guess that they could all be linked together for larger area coverage if the mobile unit doesn't affiliate with the distant sites...
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Old 07-20-2012, 7:38 PM
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thats why i like to add all the towers around the area so you can follow some of the traffic. a good example of that is i was riding down 95 one day listening to dea and they were also riding down 95 and all of a sudden i stopped hearing them and i switched towers and started hearing them then they kept on going down 95 on their marry way.
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Old 07-20-2012, 9:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kd8x View Post
Second, it is possible that the mobiles are responding on viper but are accessing another tower site that you are not receiving at the time and they may be just too far away to access the site that you have tuned into at that particular time.
IF there is a unit affiliated on the tower site he is listening to on for example TG 1234 and even if the unit is on a tower site at the other end of the state... as long as that TG is setup to allow access on both tower sites (one the unit is talking into and the one he is listening too at the same time) then he will hear the traffic on TG 1234 on the tower site he is listening too. The key is that there MUST be a unit affiliated on TG 1234 on the tower site he is on to hear the traffic. That is the beauty of a Smart Zone Omni-Link system... If a unit is in Murphy and one in Manteo as long as the TG is setup as statewide you will hear the traffic on the tower site you are scanning as long as one of the units is affiliated with the site you are scanning.

Last edited by KI4M; 07-20-2012 at 10:37 PM.. Reason: Clarification
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Old 07-21-2012, 1:02 AM
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You are hearing only one side because the units are talking back on low band. The low band and 800mhz radios key together at the dispatch console, so you will hear the dispatcher come across low band and 800mhz at the same time, but the units will respond either on 800mhz only or low band only.
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Old 07-21-2012, 7:09 AM
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Okay Guys:

I've tried to monitor the low band, but guess what! It also happens there. As for entering the tower sites, can someone recommend which ones to enter. Also, reconrider8, how do I "switch" tower sites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconrider8 View Post
thats why i like to add all the towers around the area so you can follow some of the traffic. a good example of that is i was riding down 95 one day listening to dea and they were also riding down 95 and all of a sudden i stopped hearing them and i switched towers and started hearing them then they kept on going down 95 on their marry way.
I'm familiar with mutisite, but not sure what you're talking about.

Thanks for all the help,
gr8rcall
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Old 07-21-2012, 8:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8rcall View Post
Okay Guys:

I've tried to monitor the low band, but guess what! It also happens there.
Make sure you enter the low band frequencies with delay set to 0 or minimum..For Alamance D5 area it would be 42.62 base and 42.78 mobile...


Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8rcall View Post
As for entering the tower sites, can someone recommend which ones to enter..
Enter all sites in Alamance county or whichever sites that you can hear from your location that are in Alamance.


Also, reconrider8, how do I "switch" tower sites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8rcall View Post
I'm familiar with mutisite, but not sure what you're talking about..
set your 106 to multisite and make sure to check all CC's so that it will scan all sites entered otherwise it will just lock up on the first site that it can decode and you will only hear traffic from that one site....



Thanks for all the help,
gr8rcall[/QUOTE]
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Old 07-21-2012, 9:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8rcall View Post
Okay Guys:

I've tried to monitor the low band, but guess what! It also happens there.
Unless you are listening on a low band radio with a low band antenna, you will not hear the units unless you are right on top of them (within 5 miles or so).
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:41 PM
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Even though it has been addressed in the above posts, there are some important things that need to be reiterated as there seems to be a tendency to miss them. The low band side requires enough antenna (70 inch 1/4 wave or a base loaded electrical equivalent) to receive 42 MHz efficiently, and the mobile units transmit on a different frequency than the base stations. Even then, since the mobile traffic is not repeated, you aren't going to hear them unless you are reasonably close to the mobile doing the transmitting.

I have a low band MotherMoto MaraTrac in my truck because I just can't seem to give it up after 30+ years of monitoring the NCSHP, and I can say that most people would likely be very surprised how much low band use there is even in the areas with full VIPER coverage, especially car-to-car traffic.

Last edited by CCHLLM; 07-21-2012 at 12:46 PM..
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Old 07-21-2012, 1:44 PM
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I did like reconrider8 stated in reference to not only programming my county's VIPER towers, but also the neighboring counties as well. Many times, I have experienced what KI4M mentioned in post #4 in reference to hearing SHP VIPER traffic from across the state on towers in my county of residence, now I know why.

I, too, am still hearing comms on the 42 MHz low band in reference to my area but find it very curious that ever since the digital switchover has been implemented and running in my area, I have been picking up increased SHP comms on the "Vehicle Repeater" frequencies (150- 156 MHz - reference the downloadable SHP troop map from RR's VIPER page) because the comms end with the callsigns of my local tower.

SHP in my area (per RR's FCC page) has SHP frequencies listed in the 72 MHz to 75 MHZ range, what are those used for?
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Old 07-21-2012, 2:50 PM
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72 MHz mid band and UHF frequencies are fast disappearing for SHP now that a full microwave build-out is taking place. They were used for backhaul audio links to route traffic from the fixed bases at tower sites back to the console.

I used to monitor the base transmitters on low band and listen for a response on the UHF links. All the surrounding mountain-top sites fed audio back on 72 MHz and UHF on yagis pointed into the valley where Asheville was so you could hear most any response coming from any site.
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Old 07-21-2012, 8:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpetman View Post
72 MHz mid band and UHF frequencies are fast disappearing for SHP now that a full microwave build-out is taking place. They were used for backhaul audio links to route traffic from the fixed bases at tower sites back to the console.

I used to monitor the base transmitters on low band and listen for a response on the UHF links. All the surrounding mountain-top sites fed audio back on 72 MHz and UHF on yagis pointed into the valley where Asheville was so you could hear most any response coming from any site.
Yep, the good ol' days of fun with radio are fast disappearing. Some of those links were UHF both ways, and being as they were most all on high locations, you could monitor off the side and back of the Yagi antennas for 60 to 80 air miles or more. The helical antennas were a different story off the back side >>> zippo, nada, nuttin', honey, and they weren't much good past 90 degrees from path either.

And I was mistaken about 30+ years. With a little cipherin' I find it's more like 40+ because it's been almost 40 years since I was an NCSHP Telecommunicator.

Last edited by CCHLLM; 07-21-2012 at 8:57 PM..
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Old 07-21-2012, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCHLLM View Post

And I was mistaken about 30+ years. With a little cipherin' I find it's more like 40+ because it's been almost 40 years since I was an NCSHP Telecommunicator.
A little age will do that to ya hi hi.....
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Old 07-23-2012, 6:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCHLLM View Post
Even though it has been addressed in the above posts, there are some important things that need to be reiterated as there seems to be a tendency to miss them. The low band side requires enough antenna (70 inch 1/4 wave or a base loaded electrical equivalent) to receive 42 MHz efficiently, and the mobile units transmit on a different frequency than the base stations. Even then, since the mobile traffic is not repeated, you aren't going to hear them unless you are reasonably close to the mobile doing the transmitting.
Yep. Those low band mobile freqs are a challenge to pick up. But the hunt is part of the fun and I still keep lowband freqs in my radios to try to chase down transmissions on them.
Also, as others have said, dispatchers do use multi-select and TG patching
to talk to more than one district at the same time. This is done because dispatchers usually handle more than one district on their console.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CCHLLM View Post
I have a low band MotherMoto MaraTrac in my truck because I just can't seem to give it up after 30+ years of monitoring the NCSHP, and I can say that most people would likely be very surprised how much low band use there is even in the areas with full VIPER coverage, especially car-to-car traffic.
Oh the ol' MaraTrac...those things are reliable and built like a brick.
Even after all these years they still do a darn good job.
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Old 07-23-2012, 8:55 AM
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Yep, usually the only SHP traffic i can pick up is on wake county's simulcast system for distric C3. I'm right in the middle of C4 and the only time I usually pick them up is when they are on Common 2. I have heard them on lowband responding a couple times, but my scanner is in my car with just a 1/4 VHF antenna, so I dont really expect to pick up much.
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Old 07-23-2012, 2:37 PM
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What radio do you use? on my 106 normally ill either run my larsen triband or either my rs 800mhz sometimes the $20 will out perform the $60 larsen (antenna+magmount)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCFire11 View Post
Yep, usually the only SHP traffic i can pick up is on wake county's simulcast system for distric C3. I'm right in the middle of C4 and the only time I usually pick them up is when they are on Common 2. I have heard them on lowband responding a couple times, but my scanner is in my car with just a 1/4 VHF antenna, so I dont really expect to pick up much.
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Old 07-23-2012, 3:45 PM
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I use a Pro-106.
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Old 07-23-2012, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reconrider8 View Post
What radio do you use? on my 106 normally ill either run my larsen triband or either my rs 800mhz sometimes the $20 will out perform the $60 larsen (antenna+magmount)
I use a PRO197. Perhaps i should clarify that i can hear Troop C communications fine, on both VIPER and lowband, but its the troopers I can't hear, but I know why, of course. The lowband is very quiet too, have to turn the scanner up full blast to hear it.
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Old 07-23-2012, 6:26 PM
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Alamance and Orange County units still use low band mostly they only have handle held radios on viper.
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Old 07-24-2012, 4:47 PM
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Same thing here in the Charlotte Metro region.

Even though Troop H has been switched over to Viper Digital Talkgroups. Communications in Monroe still cross band on both Low Band and the Char-Meck Analog System.

You will hear communications on Low Band and 800 Mhz. But you will most likely hear the troopers transmitting back on Low Band.

Some of the troopers will use their 800 Mhz portables for communications in Mecklenburg County. The troopers that are in the other counties stil rely on the good old low band for communications.

I can sit there at work and around 6am I hear most of the troopers checking on-duty from their low band and Monroe will answer them on 800 and low band patch.

Troop H has talkgroups on the new Char-Meck Digital System, but I have never heard any voice traffic being transmitted across them.

I do know that Troop E Salisbury is very active on Viper. They have even done away with the 800 Mhz patch across the Concord-Cabarrus 800 Mhz System.

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