Crabtree Valley Mall now P25 UHF?

[murrayustud]

I've been listening to Crabtree Valley Mall (Raleigh) for years now but now on their frequency (464.050) but now I hear a digital sound on this channel much like if one were listening to digital viper TG on an analog scanner.
Can anyone confirm this? And if so would a Motorola XTS P25 portable receive this? I'm programming it into the BCD996XLT to see if that decodes it

Thanks in advance & Happy Holidays!

[trumpetman]

Highly doubt that they would go P25. If you're hearing a digital modulation, it is more than likely MOTOTRBO or NXDN.

Check out the samples here and see which one matches up best:

Digital*Modes*Samples

[murrayustud]

MOTOTRBO it is! Can that be monitored?

[trumpetman]

You'd have to have a scanner with a discriminator tap, you can use software to decode the voice, or you can use a different program to figure out the color code/group/timeslot and program it into a TRBO radio.

Look for DSD (Digital Speech Decode) or DMRDecode. Take a look over at the Digital Voice Formats sub-forum for some good information and how-to stuff as well:

Digital Voice Formats - The RadioReference.com Forums

[reconrider8]

k kinda the same deal on the local pd channel the other day but it wasnt consiant every few min it would sound like a cc for like 5 -10 sec then stop

[NCFire11]

sounds like someone is talking on one of the channels in the system, Reconrider.

[reconrider8]

But we are still on vhf but it only happened a few times and when it did it sounded just like a cc
Ps im not trying to hijack the thread or anything this post just reminded me of that

[trumpetman]

It could be several things:

STARS could be causing interference. One of the voice channels could be the input to your local police channel, causing sporadic interference.

Could be local intermod. Could be paging transmissions leaking into the transmitter. Could be a paging transmitter overloading your scanner and you're the only one hearing it. What is the frequency pair in question?

[reconrider8]

they said something about testing then it started like "ok go ahead and test" then it started

[trumpetman]

Well listen to P25/TRBO/NXDN from the link above and see if it matches. If that's the case, they may be changing over to digital at some point or using it for special operations. Digital is much easier/cheaper to encrypt than analog signals.

[reconrider8]

i would like to see a county wide p25 system honestly but dern our county stays broke lol

[Chris-KH2PM]

Originally Posted by murrayustud

I've been listening to Crabtree Valley Mall (Raleigh) for years now but now on their frequency (464.050) but now I hear a digital sound on this channel much like if one were listening to digital viper TG on an analog scanner.

The FCC data has been updated to 7K60FXE which is TRBO.

WPZN615 (CRABTREE VALLEY MALL ASSOCIATION) FCC Callsign Details

They're waiting till the last minute to comply with the FCC Narrowbanding
mandate aren't they?

I'll see if I can snag the appropriate data in a few days and let you know what it is.

[Chris-KH2PM]

Performed some detective work today at the mall. Ran DSD and DMR Decode for awhile and logged the following (abbreviated snip from a long repetitive log file)
----------------------------------------------------------
CACH : TACT Ch 1 First fragment of CSBK
Slot Type : Colour Code 13 Terminator with LC
Group Voice Channel User LC
Service Options : Non-emergency/Privacy Enabled/No priority
Group Address : 1000 Source Address : 143
9:02:50 PM DMR Data Frame
CACH : TACT AT=1 Ch 2 First fragment of CSBK
Slot Type : Colour Code 13 Idle

-------------------------------------------
Basically it's Privacy Enabled, Color Code 13, Group 1000, Time Slot 1.

If it's Basic Privacy, there are 255 choices. But you'll need a Trbo radio to try them all.

If it's Enhanced Privacy, then it's like trying to break a P25 DES-OFB type key. Pretty much
impossible.

Here's the general log captured with DMR Decode:

The following 5 users were logged ..
137 Group Calls only (Only used channel 1)
143 Group Calls only (Only used channel 1)
415 Group Calls only (Only used channel 1)
1000 GROUP (Only used channel 1)
2000 Group Calls only (Only used channel 1)

[murrayustud]

So is it able to be monitored on ant scanner in any way? I'm guessing a no just just figured I'd ask...

[Chris-KH2PM]

Originally Posted by murrayustud

So is it able to be monitored on a scanner in any way?

Simply put, nope..not with any of the currently marketed scanners available. I cannot even monitor
Crabtree Mall with a real-deal DMR HT set up with the correct parameters of color code, timeslot
and talkgroup, because they are using Privacy (encryption). (MotoTRBO and DMR are the same
thing).

This is the DMR radio that I have, which I use on the K4ITL repeater here in Raleigh on 442.5125.

Vertex Standard VXD-720 UHF 403-470 - Vertex Wireless

I'll gladly give you a demonstration on how to receive DMR with a scanner that's been modified with
a 'discriminator tap', or better yet, using a RTL-SDR USB dongle (SDR) and SDR software. That's what I
used to figure out what the parameters were, and that they were using Privacy mode. USB dongles
are pretty cheap compared to any scanner, and the software is free. Check it out here:

rtl-sdr

The software I use with the SDR dongle.

http://sdrsharp.com/

There are programs that will work with this that allow you to listen to digital modes too, such as DMR, P25, ProVoice (Johnston County SO) for free. Very steep learning curve to set up and use, but one it's set up, easy to do.

Here's a RR link with discussion on the RTL-SDR and it's use as a general receiver.

OsmoSDR - turn a USB TV tuner into an SDR

[BryanTheRed]

I can tell you that a week before Christmas my wife and I were at Crabtree and I happened to notice that a security guard was sporting a TRBO radio. They looked fairly new, I remember making a comment about it and my wife rolling her eyes, didn't give it another thought after that day until now....

[murrayustud]

I've noticed that all the local malls, the Costco, and numerous other stores/businesses are now using this MOTOTRBO format, there's very little for the scanner listener to monitor these days except for Viper & a few other 800mhz systems. If scanner manufactures don't step up their game scanners will become worthless soon.

[jonathan75]

Is the Triangle Town Center Mall encrypted as well? I only have a Yaesu FT-530 I can use but I don't get anything.

ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WPUC301 - TRIANGLE TOWN CENTER DBA TRIANGLE TOWN CENTER MALL - Frequencies Summary

[murrayustud]

Originally Posted by jonathan75

Is the Triangle Town Center Mall encrypted as well? I only have a Yaesu FT-530 I can use but I don't get anything.

ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WPUC301 - TRIANGLE TOWN CENTER DBA TRIANGLE TOWN CENTER MALL - Frequencies Summary

Yes, Triangle Town Center has followed suit with Crabtree as Costco stores and several other private users. The assisted living facility where my mother is also says they will soon have these radios. Little by little the stuff you used to be able to monitor is disappearing, other than Amateur radio, 800mhz trunked systems, and aircraft there's not much left.

[jonathan75]

I have been using a scanner radio app on my phone but you are limited on what you can listen to. It is only what people upload live to the net with their own scanners. Plus it is not as fun. I have been able to listen to a couple of dispatch frequencies for the the Wake County Police and EMS on my ham radio but that is about it.

I don't have any modern scanners. I sold my older Realistic scanners years ago so I can only use my opened up FT-530.

Are there any rumors of new scanners coming out? Something people are anticipating and saving money for?