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Off Topic Wireless - If it receives or transmits and it doesn't fit in anywhere else, WayneH will probably move it here

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2011, 3:46 PM
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Right now it is not illegal for law enforcement to shut out the public and media but I think the Electronic Privacy Act(whatever the don't descramble encryption law is called) should be revised to allow media to still be able to listen to some public safety traffic(with the exception of the FBI,Secret Service, Homeland Security traffic etc..)
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2011, 11:48 AM
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There might be 500,000 people at Radioreference - but 295,000 of them might be cops. I have been told thats lots of scannerists actually work in law enforcement. To ask them to speak out against encryption might cramp their careers.

On a different note - Why is this thread in the RANTs section? If all public safety agencys go to encryption - Radio Reference will be out of business in a heartbeat. I would think that encryption would be a high priority serious topic at Radio Reference.

Also - Civilian hears about manhunt on iPhone app; tackles and... | www.wtov9.com - scannerists with scanner app busts perp in Tridelphia West Virginia - includes video of the scannerist
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Old 11-11-2011, 7:12 PM
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there is nothing we can legally do to stop encryption except get legislation at the federal level limiting the types of situations that encryption can be used under. good luck with that. public safety and motorola lobbyists will team up to fight that one tooth and nail. only way to stop encryption is to get abundantly more positive than negative press for the scanning hobby and hope public safety decision makers decide we scannists are of enough use to LE to not encrypt. in other words these encryption discussions have become pointless.
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Old 11-12-2011, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerg901 View Post
On a different note - Why is this thread in the RANTs section? If all public safety agencys go to encryption - Radio Reference will be out of business in a heartbeat. I would think that encryption would be a high priority serious topic at Radio Reference.
Because thats where it belongs. No matter how much scannists gripe about not being able to listen, there really are no concrete valid arguments against it. For every valid reason a scannist comes up with there are 5 equally valid arguments or alternatives that point for it - as unfortunate for us as it is.

The popularity right now of RR I equate to the real estate situation of the mid 2000s. Popularity right now will keep RR comfortable in revenue for the time being. Eventually it will peak and then there will be a decline as more agencies encrypt and go to newer technologies. This will take MANY years and by the time the money flow declines so far as to no longer be lucrative, Lindsay will have retired.
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Old 11-12-2011, 4:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northscan23 View Post
Right now it is not illegal for law enforcement to shut out the public and media but I think the Electronic Privacy Act(whatever the don't descramble encryption law is called) should be revised to allow media to still be able to listen to some public safety traffic(with the exception of the FBI,Secret Service, Homeland Security traffic etc..)
So what if it is changed? The main hurdle in listening to encrypted traffic is not a legal one.
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Old 11-17-2011, 8:04 AM
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I feel out of the loop but has the MPD began the encryption? Thanks.
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Old 11-20-2011, 1:13 PM
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Default AP Article: More Police Departments Look to Tune Public Out

Hot off the AP press...online....

News from The Associated Press
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Old 11-20-2011, 1:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerg901 View Post
If all public safety agencys go to encryption - Radio Reference will be out of business in a heartbeat. I would think that encryption would be a high priority serious topic at Radio Reference.
I agree with this statement. Isn't it interesting that RR provides all these live feeds so people (including bad guys) can listen w/o a scanner? And the availability of all the live feeds has driven some to encrypt (although not the only reason). And if everything is encrypted, this site will be downgraded to supporting and streaming things like air traffic control and railroads only.

I think agencies that encrypt are often short-sighted and/or feel they don't need nor want outside help. Especially in my area with so many different departments, agencies, channels, etc in a metropolitan area of about 2 million people; it is essential for everyone to be able to monitor neighboring agencies as desired. And FWIW, because of so many agencies in one large area, bad guys would need to listen to a LOT of different channels to evade/avoid LE.
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Old 11-20-2011, 3:15 PM
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Thumbs down More police departments look to tune public out

More police departments look to tune public out - KFVS12 News & Weather Cape Girardeau, Carbondale, Poplar Bluff
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Old 11-20-2011, 4:28 PM
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Default Police Look to Tune Out Scanner Hobbyists

Police Departments Look To Tune Out Scanner Hobbyists | Fox News
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2011, 5:31 PM
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Palm Springs, CA Police Dept. went encrypted several months ago. At a recent street fair there I talked to three foot patrol officers about the new system. Not one of them liked it, and I got the feeling that most of the rank and file did not like it either. The officers cited several safety gliches that had yet to be worked out due to the fact that much of that county is patroled by Riverside Sheriff Dept, which is still uses the RiversideTrunking System. In addition, many of the smaller desert cites in the area and neighboring counties have their own small PDs, some of which still use the 150 mhz analog frequencies. Add to that the CA Highway Patrol uses the 42 mhz statewide system. I asked the officers why the switch in the first place. Answer: They don't want the bad guys to listen in, just like the AP article said.
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Old 11-20-2011, 5:58 PM
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Great article, clearly defines the reason why encryption is happening on a more regular basis. A year ago when I mentioned this, a bunch of RR users ripped me a new one like I had committed an act of treason. Looks like the concern that feeds and apps fuel encryption were legitimate after all.
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Old 11-20-2011, 6:02 PM
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RR member dtscho quoted in paragraph eight!!!
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Old 11-20-2011, 6:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c5corvette View Post
RR member dtscho quoted in paragraph eight!!!
That link goes to his user profile. Click on the number in the top right hand coner of his post to link to it. I would like to read it.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2011, 7:54 PM
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These types of articles are increasingly mentioning smart phone apps and one can help but wonder if the encryption movement would not have accelerated so quickly if they did not exist. Are we, by streaming scanner audio, causing the end of our hobby?
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Old 11-20-2011, 7:59 PM
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I feel like that the biggest reason they're pushing encryption so hard.
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Old 11-20-2011, 8:01 PM
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One of those things that is going to happen either way. As the old saying is if you cannot beat them join them. That is why I work for an SO and also work for a Fire dept.
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Old 11-20-2011, 8:04 PM
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I guess that smartphone apps could make emergency service communications easier to access by the public, but the same people could just go out and buy a scanner a listen to the same thing that they could hear on their smartphone. I know that police particularly want to encrypt, but they probably would have anyhow, with criminals getting smarter. I hope that when Alberta gets their new province wide radio system that they don't encrypt the RCMP main dispatch channels. I do agree with encryption and other means of communication on channels such as tactical operations, but in my opinion, main dispatch channels don't need to be encrypted.
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Old 11-20-2011, 8:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scannerboy01 View Post
I guess that smartphone apps could make emergency service communications easier to access by the public, but the same people could just go out and buy a scanner a listen to the same thing that they could hear on their smartphone. I know that police particularly want to encrypt, but they probably would have anyhow, with criminals getting smarter. I hope that when Alberta gets their new province wide radio system that they don't encrypt the RCMP main dispatch channels. I do agree with encryption and other means of communication on channels such as tactical operations, but in my opinion, main dispatch channels don't need to be encrypted.
There is no debating it, the widespread availability of both smartphone apps and worldwide streaming of public safety communications is indeed bolstering the increasing use of encryption.

Other parts of the world saw the adaptation of encrypted, secured networks like Airwave about 7 years ago, making scanning of any public safety communications by the public a thing of the past and rendered scanners as useless as cassette players, VCR's and other relics of the past.

The only reason that hasn't happened so quickly in the USA is the hodgepodge of systems used, and lack of funding. Thanks to the upcoming narrowbanding mandate, many agencies will be replacing their legacy analog radios with digital narrowband replacements. And with both DMR and NexEDGE, encryption is a simple, cheap option that requires nothing more than a mouse click in programming software to enable. No "secret" boards, expensive key management, and no degradation in audio quality or range.

No annoying media listening in on your dispatches jumping your calls. And no more bad guys with their Ghetto PCS Android phones listening in either. So the many good guys and other legit users of actual scanner RADIOS get left out? Too bad, the price of progress.

Smartphone and Internet feeds have indeed become a factor in the decision to use encryption. Any mouth breather can buy a smartphone now, even prepaid no contract carriers like Boost, Ghetto PCS and Virgin sell Blackberries and Android phones. Anyone can download a free app and do nothing more than enter a zip code to tune in.

Until the Home Patrol, it took at least basic knowledge and understanding to program and effectively operate a scanner. You had to have some knack (or know someone who did) to get up and running. Now, with Internet feeds, a bad guy "lookout" can be 1000 miles away listening in while the rest of the team commit whatever offense, and text their tips to the bad guy.

You bet internet streams and apps have become a threat to some. And it's easy to see why they use this as a justification to encrypt. It's not like it was 20 years ago, encryption is cheap and hassle free on today's modern digital radio systems.

Enjoy scanning while you can.
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Old 11-20-2011, 9:31 PM
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Saw this in the local news paper too...
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