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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2010, 11:47 PM
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Default MARCS-IP ("New MARCS") Site and Talkgroup Discussion

A new 700 Mhz license application is pending for Ohio MARCS - Cuyahoga Co Project
  • 700 Mhz
  • 5 sites
  • Simulcast

Click HERE to view the pending application

Click HERE for a Google Map of the sites


LOCATIONS
Cleveland, OH (CUYAHOGA)
Warrensville Hts, OH (CUYAHOGA)
Mayfield, OH (CUYAHOGA)
Wickliffe, OH (LAKE)
Gates Mills, OH (GEAUGA)


FREQUENCIES
769.25625
769.40625
769.50625
769.75625
770.00625
770.15625
770.43125
770.50625
770.68125
770.78125
770.95625
771.23125
771.60625
771.95625


For those of you within range, you might want to try and keep an eye on the progress.

Mike
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:11 AM
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Interestingly, those locations are all on the eastern 1/2 of the county
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:16 AM
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Nice catch!! The east side locations are all a stone's throw away from me. I will scan those freqs conventionally for now (although not sure when they will actually light up.)

The Gates Mills (actually Chesterland) and Wickliffe locations are already MARCS sites. The Mayfield site would be new, but interestingly that's the location of the Mayfield Village FD.
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eorange View Post
Nice catch!! The east side locations are all a stone's throw away from me. I will scan those freqs conventionally for now (although not sure when they will actually light up.)

The Gates Mills (actually Chesterland) and Wickliffe locations are already MARCS sites. The Mayfield site would be new, but interestingly that's the location of the Mayfield Village FD.
That is, assuming the FCC data is correct. So often, when agencies submit an FCC application they will provide lat/lon information for an existing tower site that may or may not be the actual tower site that will be used.... such as would be the case if they were going to erect new towers but haven't done so yet.

I don't know if that's the case here, but it may be. So for now I wouldn't put 100% confidence in those locations. Some of those tower registrations are for towers that have been around a while... not sure that they would actually put the equipment at those old tower locations if those towrs are likely to be decommissioned before the expected EOL of the new system.

Mike
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eorange View Post
Nice catch!! The east side locations are all a stone's throw away from me. I will scan those freqs conventionally for now (although not sure when they will actually light up.)
Lucky for you The only thing I've ever heard on 700 Mhz are images of 800 Mhz frequencies rofl.

Mike
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike-KC8OWL View Post
Interestingly, those locations are all on the eastern 1/2 of the county
I have no idea how many sites are proposed, or if other existing sites will be used and melded in at a later time. And, perhaps there will be more licenses forthcoming for additional sites. I wouldn't necessarily count on this being the only license for this buildout. I'll be on the lookout for more, or possibly for addidtional sites to be added to this license once at a later date, after this license is granted.

Has anybody heard, through the media or some other grapevine, what the extent of this buildout is supposed to be as well as proposed cost? I haven't followed the happening of MARCS in NE Ohio. I wasn't aware this was even going to happen.

Mike
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:53 AM
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Well, if typical MARCS towers all look the same, then I would definitely notice if something new started going up by the FD.

Although, there's an existing structure (a huge "pole", not a tower) near the FD which has some antennas on it. I vaguely remember hearing that was going to be used for the SWRCN-east system, years ago. That could be it.
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Old 03-11-2010, 7:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtindor View Post
I have no idea how many sites are proposed, or if other existing sites will be used and melded in at a later time. And, perhaps there will be more licenses forthcoming for additional sites. I wouldn't necessarily count on this being the only license for this buildout. I'll be on the lookout for more, or possibly for additional sites to be added to this license once at a later date, after this license is granted.
Perhaps these sites are intended to provide coverage of the eastern county in conjunction with the Beachwood site, with the possibility of merging SWRCN and the Parma P25 in as well to provide the coverage of the western part of the county along with the other existing MARCS sites?

Quote:
Has anybody heard, through the media or some other grapevine, what the extent of this buildout is supposed to be as well as proposed cost? I haven't followed the happening of MARCS in NE Ohio. I wasn't aware this was even going to happen.
I've heard some details on this thing through work, but don't recall all the specifics off the top of my head. As far as cost, I know a grant was received to help pay for the thing but I don't really recall the total cost.

As far as the project scope, this is strictly my educated opinion, but I have a feeling that there is an element of "if you build it they will come" to this thing.

My folks lived in Shaker Heights for 20 years after migrating from Columbus, so I had many years to observe the phenomena known as Cuyahoga County at first hand. Historically (at least over the last 25 years or so), it seems to have been one of the most non-interoperable counties in Ohio, with one group of agencies here on low band, another group of agencies there on high band, still another group over yonder using UHF, plus several lone wolves like Cleveland flying solo. In addition, mutual aid or automatic response (at least as it's known in other areas of the state) is spotty and poorly implemented. To top it all off, it seems as though no one even wants to talk to anyone else; each city has their own little fiefdom, and they all might as well erect customs inspection stations along their borders. The end result of all this is what amounts to no practical interoperability. What there is seems quite localized and doesn't go very far beyond the borders of a couple of groups of cities.

And so, there is probably a hope that if this thing gets built out, agencies will move to it, everybody will be interoperable and live happily every after. As if....

Unfortunately, interoperability is not only having the tools to do the job, it's also a state of mind. You have to want to talk to the guy next door. In many cases, even when they already have the tools to do the job right now, agencies in Cuyahoga County still won't talk to each other. And if they won't talk to each other today, how is having a multi-million-dollar countywide radio system going to change anything? The mindset has got to be changed in Cuyahoga County to make this thing really work, or else all we'll have is a multi-million-dollar boondoggle.
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Old 03-11-2010, 7:27 PM
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I'd like to offer another possibility. Last month the Mentor Fire Department received a $800,000 federal grant to upgrade the Lake County 800 Mhz system, to become interoperable with MARCS for the purpose of mutual aid with Cuyahoga and Geauga Counties.

The only communities in Cuyahoga County that use MARCS just happen to border Lake County. Those communities use the Eastcomm Fire & EMS dispatch TG on MARCS. Several of those communities also border on Geauga County.

Warrensville Heights is not part of the Eastcomm group, but back in January they established a full time patch of their Fire & EMS dispatch on MARCS. Warrensville just happens to border on the Eastcomm communities and Geauga County. So they fit in with the others.

Regarding Tom's comments on Cuyahoga County, he pretty much nailed it.
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Old 03-12-2010, 8:38 AM
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Quote:
"The mindset has got to be changed in Cuyahoga County to make this thing really work, or else all we'll have is a multi-million-dollar boondoggle.
That is it completely.

Cuyahoga has done will at establishing sub-groups within the county where *some* agencies can inter-op with eachother, but generally this was accomplished though the use of a common dispatch channel. Examples of this include some of the Hillcrest cities, the Cuyahoga Valley region, and the Westshore region. But even within those sub-groups there are cities out their on their their own. Examples include Lakewood (part of Westshore), Cleveland Hts. (part of Hillcrest), and Brecksville (part of the Cuyahoga Valley area). There are other examples too.

From a mindset standpoint, the agency I am with generally has only one radio in the cruisers and though LEERN is programmed as a channel, it is not part of the scan group so generally no one ever hears it unless told to go there.
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:40 PM
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I don't now how many times I've heard dispatchers relaying between agencies during chases and situations involving multiple agencies. Even on SWRCN they have done this, you would think they would at least have that figured out. It will be interesting to see on Monday when the "Messiah" shows up in Strongsville what is used for inter-op.

Mike
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Old 03-25-2010, 6:07 AM
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Smile 700 mhz

i tried programing these 700mhz frequencys listed here in my radio shack pro-2096 scanner and the scanner did not like them.is their a way the scanner will take these if their going on line on marcs towers and become control channels or voice channels? hope i dont have to shop for another scanner.i did read about marcs on line and they said the change will come in 2 years and all radios will need re-programing.thanks dave zimmerman
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Old 03-25-2010, 7:43 AM
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i tried programing these 700mhz frequencys listed here in my radio shack pro-2096 scanner and the scanner did not like them.is their a way the scanner will take these if their going on line on marcs towers and become control channels or voice channels? hope i dont have to shop for another scanner.i did read about marcs on line and they said the change will come in 2 years and all radios will need re-programing.thanks dave zimmerman
If you're using Win96 it should take them as long as the extended frequency option is enabled. Sensitivity isn't quite as good, but it does work. You must use Win96, though....
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:35 AM
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You CAN NOT trunk track 700 MHz with the PRO-96/2096. You can monitor conventionally. If on an site the CC's and most VC's are 800 then your fine and dandy, but if the site has 700 MHz CC's, or the main VC's are 700 then your out of luck trunking it. But yes you can prograsm in 700 MHz conventionally as FM using the extended frequencies option using Win96 or ARC96.
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Old 04-01-2010, 6:15 AM
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Smile 700mhz

ok thanks.looks like i have to get another new scanner when these start working at the marcs towers.i have been looking for info when phase-2 will start but cant find anaything.buying another scanner is not cheap.i just got another used radio shack pro-2096 so one can stay in the car and one for base use.do you know when phase-2 will happen? i know a new scanner will have to make the market to monitor this system.thanks always dave
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Old 04-21-2010, 11:26 PM
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ULS Application - Trunked Public Safety 700 MHz - 0004151634 - OHIO MARCS - CUYAHOGA CO PROJECT - Administration

Read the Petition to Deny and Dismiss ... that's an interesting read. Oh the politics of it all.

The application apparently was dismissed, but according to the FCC response in the Dismissal of Petition to Deny, it wasn't because of the previously filed Petition to Deny and Dismiss. Confused ? Just scroll down on the above page to find hte documents.

Mike
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Old 04-22-2010, 6:18 AM
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Originally Posted by mtindor View Post
ULS Application - Trunked Public Safety 700 MHz - 0004151634 - OHIO MARCS - CUYAHOGA CO PROJECT - Administration

Read the Petition to Deny and Dismiss ... that's an interesting read. Oh the politics of it all.
Petition to Deny and Dismiss = sour grapes.

The license application itself was dismissed for exceeding power limits that close to the Canadian border, without prejudice, which means it can be easily corrected and re-filed.
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:50 AM
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Petition to Deny and Dismiss = sour grapes.

The license application itself was dismissed for exceeding power limits that close to the Canadian border, without prejudice, which means it can be easily corrected and re-filed.
That's precisely what I gleaned from it. But I did get a kick out of the P2DaD and figured others would.

Mike
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Old 05-05-2010, 1:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mtindor View Post
Has anybody heard, through the media or some other grapevine, what the extent of this buildout is supposed to be as well as proposed cost? I haven't followed the happening of MARCS in NE Ohio. I wasn't aware this was even going to happen.
All;

I’m been getting questions about this from people speculating wildly and wanting to know about the proposed Cuyahoga County P25 system. Here's the basic description; these are the only facts I have to pass out right now, so don't get going with a whole lot of questions....

The basic facts:

1. The system is being planned and will be installed at the request of Cuyahoga County
2. Will use MARCS P25 v7.x master controller
3. Eventually will be a 15-site simulcast, P25 700/800 MHz system
4. Eventually will be interconnected with Lake County and Lucas County systems as well as MARCS

The idea is to eventually provide seamless coverage along the southern shore of Lake Erie.

No further information is available at this time.... let the feeding frenzy begin.
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:40 AM
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Below is a link to the latest FCC application (still pending approval) with some changed frequencies:

ULS Application - Trunked Public Safety 700 MHz - 0004233270 - OHIO, STATE OF

Assuming this application is approved, the frequencies are proposed to be:

769.50625
769.75625
770.00625
770.50625
770.78125
771.23125
771.95625
772.65625
772.98125


Below is a link to an article from today (7/8/2010) Columbus Dispatch, in which this new system is mentioned.

Groups' pricey wireless mics now useless | The Columbus Dispatch

Quote:
The state's radio system is expanding to the 700-MHz bandwidth so it can take advantage of modern technology. The first eight towers that use that frequency will be going up in Cuyahoga County within the next three months.
Mike
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