Ohio MARCS - IP (Project 25 System)

[jpadley85]

I have been using the RadioShack pro197 in eastlake and it has done ok in my car, but it too has been cutting out transmissions periodically in the past few weeks. I'm hoping it's just my lack of upgrading firmware and confirming a few of the advanced settings, but I recently purchased a uniden BCD396XT handheld and have been VERY impressed with the coverage of the lake county tower. I highly recommend it. It also has a few new features, like unit ID display which can each be programmed with a text tag, so I know exactly who is talking, not just the TG they're talking on. I'm also willing to share that list of confirmed UIDs for anyone interested.

[radios4bill]

If you will be out tonight I have the file for the firmware and will do it if you would like. Bill

[dizwiz]

I live in NE ohio (kent) and monitor OH MARCS with a PSR-500.

I read where a recent firmware upgrade was released to enable PSR-800 to start decoding TDMA phase II voice. Which is great (of course stinks that I also read about GRE stopping production, hopefully that will change)...




This upgrade to TDMA phase II....

Let me understand this:

OK

Correct me if Im wrong here, but some cities (ex. moreland hills, chagrin falls, solon) in the area supported by these new TDMA 'towers' (these users have recently migrated to MARCS), have this new equipment and hence no need to transmit in FDMA format anymore so I wont be able to receive them.

Now, how long will 'legacy units' be in operation (ex. highway patrol w/ old FDMA radio's, etc.) such that their towers will still be transmitting in a format that I can receive?

I take it that these posts with 'legacy units' are simulcasting on both TDMA and FDMA networks such that I will still be able to receive their FDMA broadcasts.

Is there a 'phase-out' plan for these legacy units in this area of NE ohio supported by TDMA 700 mhz towers.

Also, its my understanding the whole state will eventually go to this? If so, is there a time table? Will tower frequencies have to change (from 800 Mhz to 700 Mhz) as a system goes from FDMA to TDMA?

Sorry about all the questions, I like to listen too! Hopefully Uniden will come up with something.

[wa8pyr]

Originally Posted by dizwiz

Now, how long will 'legacy units' be in operation (ex. highway patrol w/ old FDMA radio's, etc.) such that their towers will still be transmitting in a format that I can receive?

Generally they keep using the radios until they break and cannot be repaired any longer. Alternatively, the PD and FD get new radios a bit sooner and pass the slightly older ones down to public service users. It depends on the individual department, but with the cost of a TDMA radio being $3000 or more, the older models won't go away any time soon, so you won't likely see any mass conversion by most departments.

I take it that these posts with 'legacy units' are simulcasting on both TDMA and FDMA networks such that I will still be able to receive their FDMA broadcasts.

Not exactly. The new system is both FDMA and TDMA capable. If only TDMA radios are using a talkgroup, it will be TDMA; if an FDMA-only radio shows up on that talkgroup, the system will then drop that talkgroup to FDMA as long as necessary.

Is there a 'phase-out' plan for these legacy units in this area of NE ohio supported by TDMA 700 mhz towers.

See answer 1 above.

Also, its my understanding the whole state will eventually go to this? If so, is there a time table? Will tower frequencies have to change (from 800 Mhz to 700 Mhz) as a system goes from FDMA to TDMA?

It makes no difference if the system is using 700 MHz or 800 MHz (or VHF or UHF for that matter); FDMA and TDMA can be used on either band. An obvious example would be Lake County and Cleveland which are both using 800 MHz. MARCS-IP is rolling out with 700 MHz frequencies right now because that's what is available in that area. Once the current legacy system shuts down, look for those 800 MHz frequencies to move to the new system.

[universalwc]

Originally Posted by dizwiz

I live in NE ohio (kent) and monitor OH MARCS with a PSR-500.

I read where a recent firmware upgrade was released to enable PSR-800 to start decoding TDMA phase II voice. Which is great (of course stinks that I also read about GRE stopping production, hopefully that will change)...




This upgrade to TDMA phase II....

Let me understand this:

OK

Correct me if Im wrong here, but some cities (ex. moreland hills, chagrin falls, solon) in the area supported by these new TDMA 'towers' (these users have recently migrated to MARCS), have this new equipment and hence no need to transmit in FDMA format anymore so I wont be able to receive them.

Now, how long will 'legacy units' be in operation (ex. highway patrol w/ old FDMA radio's, etc.) such that their towers will still be transmitting in a format that I can receive?

I take it that these posts with 'legacy units' are simulcasting on both TDMA and FDMA networks such that I will still be able to receive their FDMA broadcasts.

Is there a 'phase-out' plan for these legacy units in this area of NE ohio supported by TDMA 700 mhz towers.

Also, its my understanding the whole state will eventually go to this? If so, is there a time table? Will tower frequencies have to change (from 800 Mhz to 700 Mhz) as a system goes from FDMA to TDMA?

Sorry about all the questions, I like to listen too! Hopefully Uniden will come up with something.

Those are some really good questions. I am worried about that as well because if I trade in the pro96 for the Uniden that was recommended above ($400), I may not be able to pick things up in years to come due to tdma phase 2. I don't really like the PSR 800 because it's tiny and reminds me of an mp3 player. I read the reviews and they are great but I just can't do it. How does the PSR 500 work wa8pyr? After researching the Uniden, it seems I can program my own text tags like I can on the pro96. I will probably end up getting the Uniden either way because not listening to anything is driving me crazy.

[Swipesy]

Let me add a couple comments to Dizwiz and Universalwe questions.

First, Chagrin and Solon are still using their UHF system in conjunction with being on the MARCS P-25 700 mhz system.

Second you can use your own Alpha tags on the PSR 800. The EZ Scan software allows importing to the software with a CSV file. I make my alpha tags in Excel and then import them.

Third, keep in mind that Geauga County will also be moving from their trunked analog system to a digital trunked system around January 1, 2013. They too will have access to the MARCS P-25 system.

Fourth, I don't think you need to be concerned with TDMA II on any of these system for quite some time becuase there will be plenty of radios on their systems using FDMA

Fifth, the Pro 96 cannot monitor 700 mhz so that radio is obsolete on part of the MARCS P-25 system that is using the 700 band (Met Park Rangers, Chagrin, Solon, etc).

Sixth, since the future of GRE radio supply is in jeopardy, if you want a 500 or 800 now is the time to acquire one.

Hope this helps.

John

[dizwiz]

Originally Posted by wa8pyr

It makes no difference if the system is using 700 MHz or 800 MHz (or VHF or UHF for that matter); FDMA and TDMA can be used on either band. An obvious example would be Lake County and Cleveland which are both using 800 MHz. MARCS-IP is rolling out with 700 MHz frequencies right now because that's what is available in that area. Once the current legacy system shuts down, look for those 800 MHz frequencies to move to the new system.

OK. this is good info.

I was assuming every TG listed in the database under the heading 'Ohio MARCS-IP' (ie. the 700 Mhz MARCS towers in Cuyahoga/ Lake county area) was automatically TDMA.

That said, do you know if Solon, Willoughby Hills, Chagrin Falls (etc.) are always using TDMA format (ex. they all have newer TDMA radios? )

[dizwiz]

Originally Posted by Swipesy

Let me add a couple comments to Dizwiz and Universalwe questions.

First, Chagrin and Solon are still using their UHF system in conjunction with being on the MARCS P-25 700 mhz system.

I cant find these UHF frequencies (for the said communities) in the RR databases.

Im taking it they are doing a 'simulcast' both on UHF and on TDMA (or FDMA -see my previous question directed towards Tom)....

[MotorolaDave]

Originally Posted by dizwiz

I cant find these UHF frequencies (for the said communities) in the RR databases.

Im taking it they are doing a 'simulcast' both on UHF and on TDMA (or FDMA -see my previous question directed towards Tom)....

The UHF frequencies for Chagrin Falls and Solon are still listed in the DB. They can be found at the link listed below. Willoughby Hills went from the old Lake system to the new Lake system, so you won't find any UHF frequencies for them.

Chagrin/Southeast Region Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

[MotorolaDave]

Originally Posted by dizwiz

OK. this is good info.

I was assuming every TG listed in the database under the heading 'Ohio MARCS-IP' (ie. the 700 Mhz MARCS towers in Cuyahoga/ Lake county area) was automatically TDMA.

That said, do you know if Solon, Willoughby Hills, Chagrin Falls (etc.) are always using TDMA format (ex. they all have newer TDMA radios? )

Solon and Chagrin Falls are using APX series radios. They still have UHF radios in their vehicles as a backup.

As for Willoughby Hills, they are also using APX series radios. When they were on the old system they were using XTS3000's, but upgraded during the switchover.

[kc8rak]

I hear 700mhz on my Pro 96.

[Swipesy]

Originally Posted by kc8rak

I hear 700mhz on my Pro 96.

If you refer to pages 9 and 10 of the Pro-96 manual you will not see 700 mhz as a range that the scanner receives on. Also, there are several threads on RR discussing 700 mhz and the Pro-96. Are you saying you are trunking in that range?

[mtindor]

Originally Posted by Swipesy

If you refer to pages 9 and 10 of the Pro-96 manual you will not see 700 mhz as a range that the scanner receives on. Also, there are several threads on RR discussing 700 mhz and the Pro-96. Are you saying you are trunking in that range?

I've never owned a Pro-96, but I've seen many threads about the Pro-96 and 700 mhz. Apparently you can program 700 Mhz in [by using some of Don Starr's software], and apparently many Pro-96's can indeed receive/trunk on 700 mhz. I don't think there are any guarantees with it, but it seems to work for many people.

I think either WA8PYR or Radioscan recently posted on a thread somewhere that I read discussing this. I could be wrong though. At any rate, even though 700 mhz isn't officially supported on the Pro-96, it can be done with many [if not all] of the units.

Mike

[dizwiz]

Originally Posted by MotorolaDave

Solon and Chagrin Falls are using APX series radios. They still have UHF radios in their vehicles as a backup.

As for Willoughby Hills, they are also using APX series radios. When they were on the old system they were using XTS3000's, but upgraded during the switchover.

are APX the radio's with TDMA capability? (and wont transmit in FDMA unless an older radio is on the system)

[kf8yk]

Originally Posted by dizwiz

are APX the radio's with TDMA capability? (and wont transmit in FDMA unless an older radio is on the system)

It's a $ 400 option in the APX, just because it's an APX does not mean it has TDMA capability.

TDMA/FDMA functionality per talkgroup is programmed into the system controller. A talkgroup can be set up as: TDMA only, FDMA only, or TDMA with FDMA fallback if a non-capable subscriber is affiliated.

[budevans]

Originally Posted by dizwiz

OK. this is good info.

I was assuming every TG listed in the database under the heading 'Ohio MARCS-IP' (ie. the 700 Mhz MARCS towers in Cuyahoga/ Lake county area) was automatically TDMA.

That said, do you know if Solon, Willoughby Hills, Chagrin Falls (etc.) are always using TDMA format (ex. they all have newer TDMA radios? )

There are more than a few folks with PSR-800's (TDMA capable scanners) monitoring the MARCS - IP P25 systems in Cuyahoga and Lake counties. Not one report of a TDMA broadcast.

There are really only two reasons to switch to TDMA mode. 1st FCC mandate to free up spectrum. 2nd if usage exceeds available frequencies.

There are plenty of 700 Mhz freq's available, so Cuyahoga has no shortage in sight. In Lake County's case they have two possible sources for additional freq's. They could request permission from the FCC to move the unused 800 Mhz freq's from their former Moto Type II county system or from the current MARCS Moto Type II system.

[LZ56]

Sounds like TG 27505 (Kirtland PD & Lakeland College PD) is also Mentor On The Lake PD dispatch. Can anyone else confirm? IIRC, all 3 shared a common dispatch TG on the old system too.

[GHF]

Yep Mentor on the Lake also heard on this TG 27505

I beleive Mentor on the Lake Pd 1A is on TG 27617

G...

[GHF]

Hearing Westlake and Rocky River FD's on this TG.

G...

[budevans]

Originally Posted by GHF

Hearing Westlake and Rocky River FD's on this TG.

G...

Confirmed, Westcom dispatch has been active this afternoon. As the week goes on we'll see if they remain active.

Maybe they've finally gone live.