At my wits end

DJFuzzy · #1 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 10:20 AM

Hello Folks,

What used to be an enjoyable hobby has become an experience of frustration.

I have a Radio Shack PRO-197 scanner, that I've had for several years, and have successfully monitored communications in my area, until they switched to the Project 25 system.

I reside in Lake County Ohio, and I really enjoy listening to police, fire, EMS, etc...

I have downloaded and successfully installed all firmware updates (ver. 2.1) for my scanner, and I have downloaded all of the applicable talk groups, trunked systems, and frequencies that I'm interested in, yet I can't get even a quarter of the traffic that I used to get. A lot of the transmissions are garbled, and I can't seem to hear anything from central command, which dispatches nearly everything in the county.

Am I doing something wrong, or is the PRO-197 just a paperweight at this point?

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,

David

gewecke · #2 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 10:34 AM

It may not be your fault. How far are you from your area's P25 tower? Digital comms is a different kind of beast in the sense that it's like listening to HDTV when it's received over the air. The signal is either there and readable or it's not, there's no in between as with analog FM.
You may need to re-orient or move your antenna for your pro-197, as it needs 85-95% signal to be able to process the signal.
A outside antenna may help, or position a inside antenna near a window on the second floor?

73,
n9zas

Highpockets · #3 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJFuzzy

Hello Folks,

What used to be an enjoyable hobby has become an experience of frustration.

I have a Radio Shack PRO-197 scanner, that I've had for several years, and have successfully monitored communications in my area, until they switched to the Project 25 system.

I reside in Lake County Ohio, and I really enjoy listening to police, fire, EMS, etc...

I have downloaded and successfully installed all firmware updates (ver. 2.1) for my scanner, and I have downloaded all of the applicable talk groups, trunked systems, and frequencies that I'm interested in, yet I can't get even a quarter of the traffic that I used to get. A lot of the transmissions are garbled, and I can't seem to hear anything from central command, which dispatches nearly everything in the county.

Am I doing something wrong, or is the PRO-197 just a paperweight at this point?

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,

David

Not living there I can only guess, if this is the system your talking about (link) read the info in the yellow box (Important Notes) on this system and what scanner can receive some of the transmissions.

Ohio MARCS-IP: Multi-Agency Radio Communications (P25) Trunking System, Various, Ohio - Scanner Frequencies

DJFuzzy · #4 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gewecke

It may not be your fault. How far are you from your area's P25 tower? Digital comms is a different kind of beast in the sense that it's like listening to HDTV when it's received over the air. The signal is either there and readable or it's not, there's no in between as with analog FM.
You may need to re-orient or move your antenna for your pro-197, as it needs 85-95% signal to be able to process the signal.
A outside antenna may help, or position a inside antenna near a window on the second floor?

73,
n9zas

I did some looking around and it appears that the transmit tower is in Wickliffe, OH, about 21 miles from me. The antenna that I've always used is the one that came standard on the unit (and the base unit is on a second floor). I currently don't use an outdoor antenna. Perhaps I need to look into that option but first, I need to verify that my scanner is, in fact, capable of receiving the broadcasts.

DJFuzzy · #5 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highpockets

Not living there I can only guess, if this is the system your talking about (link) read the info in the yellow box (Important Notes) on this system and what scanner can receive some of the transmissions.

Ohio MARCS-IP: Multi-Agency Radio Communications (P25) Trunking System, Various, Ohio - Scanner Frequencies

Thanks! I did see this but I've also heard of people having success with the new system and the PRO-197 but I don't know what antennas they use, or how close they are to the transmit antenna.

Ed_Azalea · #6 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 11:46 AM

You might want to see the discussions in the Cleveland P25 and MARCS-IP systems threads re: simulcast multisite distortion.

budevans · #7 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJFuzzy

I did some looking around and it appears that the transmit tower is in Wickliffe, OH, about 21 miles from me. The antenna that I've always used is the one that came standard on the unit (and the base unit is on a second floor). I currently don't use an outdoor antenna. Perhaps I need to look into that option but first, I need to verify that my scanner is, in fact, capable of receiving the broadcasts.

There are five towers, they all transmit and receive the same traffic on the same frequencies. That's the issue for consumer grade radio's. Too much or too many signals are being received.

You may very well be receiving signals from all five towers. Because they are varying distances away from your location you receive them out of step. The closest towers signal arrives first, then the next closest, etc.. Consumer scanners try to decode all of the overlapping signals. The professional gear is designed to handle it. Processing the first signal received and ignoring the others.

As Ed pointed out, you should look at the messages regarding garble (LSM distortion) that's common with P25 systems.

What can you do? Just experiment with your scanner in various locations or positions. In my case one of the first things I did was to lay my scanner on its back and turn it in different directions. I noted where the reception improved. It's clunky but it works.

Another option might be to install a Yagi (beam) antenna that you can point at the closest tower. Or you could try a low cost directional indoor UHF TV antenna. FYI: I picked one up at Micro Center for $10, plus a F connector to BNC adapter for $1.20. It is has really improved my reception (greatly reduced the garble).

Give somethings a try and let us know how you make out.

jaspence · #8 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 12:47 PM

The distance is a factor with a built in antenna, but the Motorola X2 TDMA is probably the real killer. As the warning states on the RR page, only the PSR-800 can decode this format.

budevans · #9 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 1:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaspence

The distance is a factor with a built in antenna, but the Motorola X2 TDMA is probably the real killer. As the warning states on the RR page, only the PSR-800 can decode this format.

So far, no reports of TDMA activity on the MARCS P25 systems. Also no mention of moving to Phase II (TDMA) in the MARCS build out plans through 2016.

But it's good to know that there's at least one radio (GRE-800) that should be able to handle it.

Highpockets · #10 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 1:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budevans

So far, no reports of TDMA activity on the MARCS P25 systems. Also no mention of moving to Phase II (TDMA) in the MARCS build out plans through 2016.

But it's good to know that there's at least one radio (GRE-800) that should be able to handle it.

When not living in a state your trying to help someone do programming or solve a problem, we can only go by what is listed in the database.

Maybe an addition to the Important Notes section for that system on your comments about no TDMA at this time would be helpful, the system type is listed as P25 Motorola X2-TDMA.

Ed_Azalea · #11 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 1:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highpockets

...
Maybe an addition to the Important Notes section for that system on your comments about no TDMA at this time would be helpful, the system type is listed as P25 Motorola X2-TDMA....

Actually it's been discussed. Further, the threads on this and other local P25 systems are discussed locally so although help from out of the area is appreciated probably better info is already in the local threads from local listeners and others who have "inside" info.

Highpockets · #12 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 1:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed_Azalea

Actually it's been discussed. Further, the threads on this and other local P25 systems are discussed locally so although help from out of the area is appreciated probably better info is already in the local threads.

No problem, thanks for the info, I did not read all the local threads, I read that thread just because of it's title. I'm sure he's in good hands.

k2radio · #13 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 2:01 PM

Get the ARC software it will be really easy !

OldDeadOne · #14 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 2:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k2radio

Get the ARC software it will be really easy !

LOL that's not what his problem is...He's close to solving his problem with the help of the others here....

DJFuzzy · #15 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDeadOne

LOL that's not what his problem is...He's close to solving his problem with the help of the others here....

I have the ARC program. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, or a setting is off, or I need a better antenna. I just don't know.

k2radio · #16 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 5:27 PM

did you assign it to a scan list like Lake County Scan list 1?
I went down to South Carolina and I was banging my head against the wall over this.
Also if systems are TOO BIG try breaking em down in different scan lists .

DJFuzzy · #17 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 6:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k2radio

did you assign it to a scan list like Lake County Scan list 1?
I went down to South Carolina and I was banging my head against the wall over this.
Also if systems are TOO BIG try breaking em down in different scan lists .

I have it broken down into 4 different scan lists.

I'm scanning 4 trunked systems, 424 talk groups, and 42 conventional channels. I can't imagine any of this being too big.

k2radio · #18 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 9:11 PM

Radio reference says a PSR-800 is needed for reception or DSD,its an x2

Ed_Azalea · #19 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 9:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k2radio

Radio reference says a PSR-800 is needed for reception or DSD,its an x2

Quote:

Originally Posted by budevans

So far, no reports of TDMA activity on the MARCS P25 systems. Also no mention of moving to Phase II (TDMA) in the MARCS build out plans through 2016.

But it's good to know that there's at least one radio (GRE-800) that should be able to handle it.

As it's been stated....

Highpockets · #20 (**permalink**) 12-12-2012, 9:25 PM

As it's been stated.

Your are right in the local threads, but the database tells something different. Some users don't read all the local threads of other states, but at times go to the database to help others. You local guys can do what you want but it doesn't help not having something in the database for those that try to help others. Just my opinion.