Help setting up a radio system for a SAR Team.

[k9gunner]

I am the director of a Search & Rescue Team for SW Ohio. We are looking at communications issues. We would like to get on the MARCS system, but have had no luck trying to get a meeting with EMA directors to research this. Our second option was to rent a trunked system and radios from P&R Communications, however I think that is going to be cost prohibitave. My next option I am looking at is setting up a few VHF repeaters.

Would anyone be willing to help me research this as far as cost, and what kind of coverage we would get? We really need to cover Mont. Clark, Miami, Champaign, Preble, Butler Counties.

 

[N_Jay]

I am the director of a Search & Rescue Team for SW Ohio.

Who are you sanctioned under?

I am a bit surprised that you can not get a meting with the EMA directors?

How active is the SIEC in your state?

 

[jim202]

You might find getting on the MARCS system to be costly also. I would try talking
with your local police agency and locate the radio contact person there. That
person should have contact information for the MARCS system.

Your legal position of either a public safety organization or a private group
will have an effect on the outcome of your goal here. You might end up
with some VHF radios and license them on some business channels for
local coverage.

Jim

I am the director of a Search & Rescue Team for SW Ohio. We are looking at communications issues. We would like to get on the MARCS system, but have had no luck trying to get a meeting with EMA directors to research this. Our second option was to rent a trunked system and radios from P&R Communications, however I think that is going to be cost prohibitave. My next option I am looking at is setting up a few VHF repeaters.

Would anyone be willing to help me research this as far as cost, and what kind of coverage we would get? We really need to cover Mont. Clark, Miami, Champaign, Preble, Butler Counties.

 

[k9gunner]

I am a police officer for the department where we are based out of, so talking to the poilice is "me" LOL. We are on the county system, not MARCS, so our county has little to no communication with MARCS. I was told the EMA director could help, but again, little luck there.

I think for cost you are correct, VHF will probably be the way to go, however I am not sure what kind of range we will get etc. We are sanctioned as a volunteer fire dept to my understanding, however we do not recieve tax base funding as the FD does (if that matters).

Overall I am looking for help with what repeaters will cover areas, etc.

Jeff

 

[SkipSanders]

Well, one of the reasons it's 'expensive' to get into systems that already exist, is that it's expensive to set up a system. Putting up a repeater isn't just a matter of buying a box and plugging it in somewhere, it has to be installed at a good location... which someone owns, and charges (high) rent for, usually.

Range, as always, depends on antenna height, more than anything else, then terrain. (hills, valleys, etc.) Quick rough estimate, 100 foot antenna height = 10-20 miles range, 400 foot antenna height = 20-40 miles range. Handheld to Handheld, range simplex is about 4-8 miles at best, if there are no obstructions.

Presuming SAR means you're going to be 'out in the woods', probably VHF will work a bit better, as UHF and above tend to be absorbed by foliage more than VHF.

Most of the SAR groups around here use 155.160 (pretty much a national SAR channel), and usually one other nearby channel, for 'in team' comms at scene, with a 'loaner' radio from whichever agency they work with to keep in touch out of the search area.

Getting repeater coverage into search areas in mountains tends to be way too expensive, since it'd take several repeaters to get into all the valleys, etc.

If your planned search areas have cellular coverage, you might just use cell for 'talking to others'. You'll want to have cell phone capability, anyway.

You may want to look into licensing a 'portable repeater' system that you can put up on a temporary basis at a good high spot covering a search area, as needed, rather than depending on preexisting repeaters to cover all search areas.

 

[BigJimbo]

Jeff:

Have you given any thought to using Nextel Direct Connect? Systems are in place, coverage is "pretty good" for most of the region and your comms would be secure.

Perhaps VHF for close in, or bad coverage areas.

Just a thought.

Regards!

 

[k9gunner]

Jim, we have looked at nextel. We just got a demo radio set from P&R, and they are nice, but the cost for the system and 4 portables is over $1000 a month! So that is out. I have had a few people PM me offering to help set up a VHF system, which is the route I think we will go.

 

[KD8CHP]

4 Portables $1000 a month?
Something has to be a miss here.

 

[w8jjr]

Are you open to using used equipment ? Lots of radios and systems out there. FEMA just auctioned off a few portable VHF repeater systems, $1500.00 each. There are E-Bay or on-line stores that sell used systems. Maybe the FEMA systems will show up on one of their sites. With the help of your local ARPSC or radio heads, ( give them a title like communications) and I think you will find a couple of community service orinented volunters.

 

[k9gunner]

4 Portables $1000 a month?
Something has to be a miss here.

Here is the breakdown, the system space is $350 a month. Each portable is $175 a month, mobiles $150 a month.

 

[k9gunner]

Are you open to using used equipment ? Lots of radios and systems out there. FEMA just auctioned off a few portable VHF repeater systems, $1500.00 each. There are E-Bay or on-line stores that sell used systems. Maybe the FEMA systems will show up on one of their sites. With the help of your local ARPSC or radio heads, ( give them a title like communications) and I think you will find a couple of community service orinented volunters.

We have no objection at all to used equipment. Due to the fact most of our members are paying for everything out of pocket we are trying to keep cost down. We have already had a few VHF portables donated, so we may go that route. I just have no idea what is good for a repeator / antenna, etc.

 

[n8emr]

If you plan on licensing a repeater, get the license before you start getting radio's. Get coordinated. You may find your going to UHF instead of VHF, You may find that you will need narrow band radio's and many of the better ebay used radio's are NOT narrow band compliant. Without Police/EMA support your going on business band frequencies and will need to live with what you can get band wise.

I personally think you getting in over your head by putting up a repeater. YOUR NOT going to cover multi counties with a $1500 repeater. First of all that $1500 ebay repeater is most likley only 25-50 watts. NOT enough power. Your going to need much more power, that means an amp $300-$500, replacing the duplexer that came with your repeater, thats another $1K or more. Your still going to need one tall tower, rent isnt cheap and even if free you have $1000 in an antenna system. Dont forget someone is going to need to pay for electric, propane cost at the site. If its a commercial tower you will most likely need a commercial antenna installer again not cheap. NOW $1000/month is way overprice for equipment, $25-$50 is more inline with what you should be paying. Still maybe to much for you but thats a good price considering what goes into a good system.

Now you have a system that might do mobile coverage over part of a county, but your SAR team is most likely buried in a forest of RF eating trees and might be able to hear the repeater but doubtful they will get in. Think real hard about putting up a system. understand your needs. DO you really need a multi county repeater? WHY? Will your SAR team be spread out that far at any given time? Usually there in a pretty small area, mobile extenders, portable repeaters, or just simplex to a the EC may be all you need.

A quick check shows the clark county Sherif with 125watt transmitter and I bet serveral receivers around the county linked back to the dispatch center.

 

[k9gunner]

Good points, we actually are going both routes, we are using some VHF police channels, and also getting on the MARCS system. We are going to start off with 6 portables and 2 mobiles, and go from there.

Thanks for all your help.