OKWIN Rebanding Status

[bswst501]

Originally Posted by nd5y

I'm running Unitrunker on the Lawton site and it shows neighbor site 28 Elgin control channel is now 852.0875.

The Elgin site just rebanded.

Also, The update to the Vinita site that I made still didn't work. So I'm back to square one.

[DickH]

Originally Posted by bswst501

The Elgin site just rebanded.
Also, The update to the Vinita site that I made still didn't work. So I'm back to square one.

Here is something that might work.

[HogDriver]

Confused again! If OKC has rebanded, why am I still picking up voice channel freqs above 854 MHz?

[nd5y]

Originally Posted by HogDriver

Confused again! If OKC has rebanded, why am I still picking up voice channel freqs above 854 MHz?

Rebanding ONLY changed OKWIN frequencies in the 866-869 MHz band. It DID NOT AFFECT the existing frequencies in the 854-861 MHz band.

[rsrohloff]

It appears the date that Tulsa PD will activate the rebanding on January 23rd. All radios will have to done by that date.

[kmikebar]

I am having issues with tracking the rebanded Vinita site on OKWIN on both my PSR 310 and PRO 164. Did firm ware update on both and software updates for both using ARC 300 and ARC 310. Tried rebanded table and custom band plan and still nothing. Anybody know the correct band plan or what they have done to the site so we can't track it? Any input or help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.

[DickH]

Originally Posted by kmikebar

... Anybody know the correct band plan or what they have done to the site so we can't track it? Any input or help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.

I posted some info here a week ago. Don't you read the thread?

[kmikebar]

yes I read the thread and tried your ideas but they don't work. Vinita has a very unique setup and band plan that several of us are are still trying to figure out.

[drkatzjr]

Originally Posted by plaws

So can someone confirm that the now-rebanded Tulsa site is still trunkable by "old" scanners? Per everything I can find, because Site 1 doesn't use channels with a 0 in the 4th decimal place, it should work just fine in an older scanner.

Does it?

I have a PRO-433, and am having no problems receiving Tulsa, with a scanner that is supposed
to not be rebandable.

But according to rsrohloff's previous post, it will not be up until Jan 23rd.......but I thought Tulsa -was- rebanded now,
per RR

[peterjmag]

I want to to try to clear a few things up and if I am wrong please correct me. First of all in regards to the Tulsa site being rebanded and the Jan 23rd deadline I think there is a misunderstanding. The Tulsa site as far as I know was not rebanded but actualy added channels in the lower range of the channels in the system aka 854.3375...856.0875...etc. Is this actual rebanding? I would say no. The control channels did not change. If you notice a true rebanded site usually goes from an 860 or high to an 854 or lower and the control channels follow suite. This has not happened yet to the Tulsa site and it looks like there is not a need to because the Tulsa frequencies before reband fall below 860 which would not by definition fall into a needed reband category. As for Jan 23rd. The deadline that is being discussed is about TPD's subfleets aka talkgroups switching to all digital P-25 with possible encryption. This has nothing to do with rebanding. Last but not least the Vinita site issue. It is apparent that the new rebanded Vinita site is using some sort of weird new tables that is not available for change in most scanners and has become an issue. The solution is keep trying different tables like has been discussed on this thread. It does worry me though that I have been told that the radio contracter that did the reband said that the site will not able to be monitored by any scanner even after new tables are applied. This is interesting and bad news for the Vinita listeners. I do not know what else to do because I can't hear that site but I would just keep trying different tables and read and ask around different threads and people on this website. I hope this helps.

[nd5y]

Has anybody in the Vinita area verified what frequencies are actually in use and then used Unitrunker or Trunk88 or something to actually see what LCNs match with the frequencies?
If somebody did that then it would be easy to figure out what table to use.

[bswst501]

Originally Posted by peterjmag

Last but not least the Vinita site issue. It is apparent that the new rebanded Vinita site is using some sort of weird new tables that is not available for change in most scanners and has become an issue. The solution is keep trying different tables like has been discussed on this thread. It does worry me though that I have been told that the radio contracter that did the reband said that the site will not able to be monitored by any scanner even after new tables are applied. This is interesting and bad news for the Vinita listeners.

I find this very disturbing

Originally Posted by nd5y

Has anybody in the Vinita area verified what frequencies are actually in use and then used Unitrunker or Trunk88 or something to actually see what LCNs match with the frequencies?
If somebody did that then it would be easy to figure out what table to use.

This is what I was planning to do when I got some time away from school. Probably around mid march during spring break.

[DickH]

Originally Posted by drkatzjr

I have a PRO-433, and am having no problems receiving Tulsa, with a scanner that is supposed
to not be rebandable. ...

The Tulsa site freqs. all have a 5 in the 4th decimal place, therefor it can be tracked with any scanner.. Freqs. that have a zero in the 4th decimal place can not be tracked without the correct band plans.
The RR database seems to be wrong because a Motorola trunked system uses a MAXIMUM of 28 freqs. The Tulsa site lists more than 30. But if your scanner can do control channel only trunking you only need the 4 control channels.

[DickH]

Another explanation about rebanding.
Motorola trunked systems do not use frequencies in the data stream sent by the control channel. They use channel numbers. The channel numbers for the 851-854 range are 0 to 120 with .025MHz spacing (851.0125, 851.0375, etc.)

Part of re-banding requires changing the freqs. in the 866 to 868 range to the 851 to 854 range by subtracting 15MHz. Thus, freqs. with a 5 in the 4th decimal place fall into the existing 1-120 channel numbers. BUT freqs. with a zero in that 4th place do not have a corresponding channel number in the 1-120 range. So Motorola "borrowed" channel numbers 440 to 558 to use for those freqs. To be able to hear those new freqs., the scanner needs to have a Custom Band Plan put in that adds channels 440 to 558, freqs. 851.0250 to 854.0000 with .025MHz spacing.

These are the resulting channel numbers and freqs.:
Ch.# FREQ.
1 851.0125
440 851.0250
2 851.0375
441 851.0500
3 851.0625
442 851.0750
- - - etc. - - -

[DickH]

Originally Posted by kmikebar

... Anybody know the correct band plan or what they have done to the site so we can't track it? ...

Here is an insidious plan I found in Motorola literature some time ago. If they did this on the Vinita site you would think it would have been done on all sites.

4.7 Shuffled Band Plan
Radios that have been upgraded to be Rebanding capable are also capable of supporting the Shuffled Band Plan. The Shuffled band plan is intended to help prevent unauthorized system monitoring and access on Shuffled Band Plan enabled systems. Shuffled Band Plan shuffles all trunking numbered-channels allowed in the band plan.
Note that Shuffled Band Plan can only be enabled by the Rebanding Capable CPS program with an appropriate Advanced System Key per Trunking System. This feature is designed and implemented for Motorola 3600 Type II Trunking systems.

[N5TWB]

Two thumbs up to DickH for his two posts ^^^^. The first is the best short tutorial on rebanding I've read and the Motorola Shuffled Band Plan info on the second post is equally informative, seems to validate the info in peterjmag's post yesterday.

[HogDriver]

If Vinita is using a shuffled band plan, would it still be part of OKWIN? Would OHP radios be able to switch properly as they drove through different band plans?

[DickH]

Originally Posted by HogDriver

If Vinita is using a shuffled band plan, would it still be part of OKWIN? Would OHP radios be able to switch properly as they drove through different band plans?

That's a very good point. I guess that all radios in a system would need to be the same, so let's hope it's not the "shuffle".

[drkatzjr]

Originally Posted by kmikebar

I am having issues with tracking the rebanded Vinita site on OKWIN on both my PSR 310 and PRO 164. Did firm ware update on both and software updates for both using ARC 300 and ARC 310. Tried rebanded table and custom band plan and still nothing. Anybody know the correct band plan or what they have done to the site so we can't track it? Any input or help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.

I live in Tulsa, but frequently travel up I-44 into MO.

I have a HomePatrol-1 with the Extreme Update.

I have had no problems with reception with the Vinita site....--at least-- in terms
of OHP Troop L, as that is all I listen to...but it sounds fine.... No problems at all.
(And I made sure I was in fact receiving Vinita)

[PaulSuperman]

Originally Posted by peterjmag

I want to to try to clear a few things up and if I am wrong please correct me. First of all in regards to the Tulsa site being rebanded and the Jan 23rd deadline I think there is a misunderstanding. The Tulsa site as far as I know was not rebanded but actualy added channels in the lower range of the channels in the system aka 854.3375...856.0875...etc. Is this actual rebanding? I would say no. The control channels did not change. If you notice a true rebanded site usually goes from an 860 or high to an 854 or lower and the control channels follow suite. This has not happened yet to the Tulsa site and it looks like there is not a need to because the Tulsa frequencies before reband fall below 860 which would not by definition fall into a needed reband category. As for Jan 23rd. The deadline that is being discussed is about TPD's subfleets aka talkgroups switching to all digital P-25 with possible encryption. This has nothing to do with rebanding. Last but not least the Vinita site issue. It is apparent that the new rebanded Vinita site is using some sort of weird new tables that is not available for change in most scanners and has become an issue. The solution is keep trying different tables like has been discussed on this thread. It does worry me though that I have been told that the radio contracter that did the reband said that the site will not able to be monitored by any scanner even after new tables are applied. This is interesting and bad news for the Vinita listeners. I do not know what else to do because I can't hear that site but I would just keep trying different tables and read and ask around different threads and people on this website. I hope this helps.

Peter could 1.23.13 be both compelling rebanding, And P 25 (9600) switch over? The switch over to P 25 should fix the Vinita site as well should it not?