OKWIN Rebanding Status

[plaws]

Originally Posted by N5TWB

Two thumbs up to DickH for his two posts ^^^^. The first is the best short tutorial on rebanding I've read and the Motorola Shuffled Band Plan info on the second post is equally informative, seems to validate the info in peterjmag's post yesterday.

Rebanding - The RadioReference Wiki

[Freqed]

Originally Posted by PaulSuperman

Peter could 1.23.13 be both compelling rebanding, And P 25 (9600) switch over? The switch over to P 25 should fix the Vinita site as well should it not?

I do not think that TPD switching to P-25 is going to have any effect on OHP, especially Vinita.

[plaws]

Originally Posted by Freqed

I do not think that TPD switching to P-25 is going to have any effect on OHP, especially Vinita.

Lots of things going on.

First, has anyone run Unitrunker against the Tulsa site (Site 1)? That will tell us if rebanding is "complete". I suspect it is and perhaps the DB here just hasn't caught up. There was no "transition" with Site 8 (OKC), it just happened. Just because the site works in old scanners does not mean that it has not yet been rebanded - those of you up there may just be lucky (unlike Site 8 listeners).

As for P25, how do we "know" that Site 1 is going to P25? Seems to me that they'd have made the conversion at the same time they rebanded. That they didn't makes me think that this is just a case of an agency or two moving to digital talkgroups. Encryption is a different matter entirely. Let me just say that there may be a correlation between agencies that are in the news frequently for things that they are not proud of and whether or not they choose to hide their radio comms from the taxpayers.

The Vinita site (15) is a different thing again. Putting Unitrunker on it would tell us what was going on very quickly. Remember, Unitrunker doesn't need a discriminator tap for the Uniden DMA scanners, just a serial connection (or USB for the HP1e).


Hey! This is my 1000th post! That's true even though the number up there says something else!

[bswst501]

Originally Posted by plaws

Lots of things going on.

First, has anyone run Unitrunker against the Tulsa site (Site 1)? That will tell us if rebanding is "complete". I suspect it is and perhaps the DB here just hasn't caught up. There was no "transition" with Site 8 (OKC), it just happened. Just because the site works in old scanners does not mean that it has not yet been rebanded - those of you up there may just be lucky (unlike Site 8 listeners).

I'm running Unitrunker on the Tulsa site. what am I looking for exactly? Also i keep getting these weird popup windows while monitoring the Tulsa site. It still reads the site as a Motorola site but a couple of times a day it will "loose" the ID. For the OKWIN system it is 092C, and it will give me a different hex value. it stays on that window for a few seconds then picks the 092C system and continues decoding as usual. I hope this makes sense. Ive noticed that this has been happening with greater frequency since they rebanded the Tulsa site.

Originally Posted by plaws

As for P25, how do we "know" that Site 1 is going to P25? Seems to me that they'd have made the conversion at the same time they rebanded. That they didn't makes me think that this is just a case of an agency or two moving to digital talkgroups. Encryption is a different matter entirely. Let me just say that there may be a correlation between agencies that are in the news frequently for things that they are not proud of and whether or not they choose to hide their radio comms from the taxpayers.

And this would be the reason why I'm against encryption of regular dispatch channels. It give that agency both transparency and accountability to the taxpayers. But that's an entirely different thread that has been discussed over and over and over again on RR.

Originally Posted by plaws

The Vinita site (15) is a different thing again. Putting Unitrunker on it would tell us what was going on very quickly. Remember, Unitrunker doesn't need a discriminator tap for the Uniden DMA scanners, just a serial connection (or USB for the HP1e).

Only some of the Uniden DMA scanner has this feature. My BCT15 cant do it and from what Ive read its only the XT series that can.

Originally Posted by plaws

Hey! This is my 1000th post! That's true even though the number up there says something else!

Congratulations!!

[plaws]

Originally Posted by bswst501

I'm running Unitrunker on the Tulsa site. what am I looking for exactly?

When the "Site 1" window comes up, click on the button that looks like a calculator (tool tip says "wizard"). You'll get the list of channels ("LCN" - this is the channel number Mot Type II systems send to radios not an EDACS or LTR LCN) and their corresponding frequencies. You can change the mapping between "LCN" and frequency by clicking the buttons along the top. The ones in green are valid for your channel numbers. On Site 40, "Standard" and "Rebanded" are both green because the system is not yet rebanded.

What does it say for Site 1?

Originally Posted by bswst501

Also i keep getting these weird popup windows while monitoring the Tulsa site. It still reads the site as a Motorola site but a couple of times a day it will "loose" the ID.

Yep, I get these on Site 40 all the time. Self-correcting as you note. And that's whether I'm doing it "inline" on the XT or via the tap in my BC780XLT

Originally Posted by bswst501

Only some of the Uniden DMA scanner has this feature. My BCT15 cant do it and from what Ive read its only the XT series that can.

D'Oh! You're right. BCT15X, BC346XT, and BCD[3|9]96XT plus the HP1 if you have THE EXTREME update.

[N5TWB]

Originally Posted by plaws

Rebanding - The RadioReference Wiki

Key word: "short" -- the Wiki is a great resource that I use regularly but DickH did well, IMO, for just a forum post.

[bswst501]

Here is a screen shot of what I have from Unitrunker.

[DickH]

Originally Posted by bswst501

Here is a screen shot of what I have from Unitrunker.

Looks as if the only rebanded freq. is Channel Number 476, 851.9250.
That falls into the borrowed channel numbers, 440 to 558, used in rebanding.

[plaws]

Originally Posted by DickH

Looks as if the only rebanded freq. is Channel Number 476, 851.9250.
That falls into the borrowed channel numbers, 440 to 558, used in rebanding.

That's how I read it too. Clicking on the "Rebanded" button will cause UniTrunker to display the correct frequencies (in Unitrunker).

I don't have UT in front of me now, but there is another screen that will show you which channels are control channels (whether in use currently or not). That's the key bit of info for most users.

Looks like Tulsa area listeners with non-rebandable radios will lose a bit of traffic - anytime a talkgroup is assigned to LCN 476, your radio will tune to the wrong place.

[peterjmag]

I disagree. Where is 851.925 on Tulsa's KNJH431 license? Unless they do another update on their license to add this frequency I don't it's accurate at this point. Any ideas?

[drkatzjr]

Originally Posted by DickH

The Tulsa site freqs. all have a 5 in the 4th decimal place, therefore it can be tracked with any scanner.. Freqs. that have a zero in the 4th decimal place can not be tracked without the correct band plans.
The RR database seems to be wrong because a Motorola trunked system uses a MAXIMUM of 28 freqs. The Tulsa site lists more than 30. But if your scanner can do control channel only trunking you only need the 4 control channels.

I think Dick's explanation (s) posted earlier on this issue, is great.

[DickH]

Originally Posted by plaws

... anytime a talkgroup is assigned to LCN 476, your radio will tune to the wrong place.

Right. It will display 862.9125.

[DickH]

Originally Posted by peterjmag

I disagree. Where is 851.925 on Tulsa's KNJH431 license? Unless they do another update on their license to add this frequency I don't it's accurate at this point. Any ideas?

That's a City of Tulsa license. OKWIN is a state system and 851.925 is licensed under
KNBU457 and WQEN870.

[bswst501]

It should be noted that the frequencies that I have post are from what UT has picked up. Meaning active talk channels vs. the channels listed in the RR database.

[peterjmag]

Originally Posted by DickH

That's a City of Tulsa license. OKWIN is a state system and 851.925 is licensed under
KNBU457 and WQEN870.

That's correct. KNJH431 is the City if Tulsa and WQWN870 is Coweta. KNBU457 is OKC and multiple other sites. His trunker data is reading the Tulsa site KNJH431. The frequency 851.925 is associated with the Coweta site but not the Tulsa site. Why is trunker identifying 851.925 as being associated with the Tulsa site? That is incorrect.

[drkatzjr]

Slightly off topic but I have a question about OKC's 851.0375. I pick up this freq in Tulsa,
with a very strong signal, and what is odd is that it appears to have continuity of conversation
(not trunked) at least ----invariably--- and seems to alternate between our Oklahoma Highway Patrol 's
Troop A, B, and C.

[PaulSuperman]

I have a friend who is an State of Nevada radio tech who is acquaintances with a radio tech in Oklahoma who called me tonight, And told me that his acquittance in Oklahoma told him that the state of Oklahoma is updating the Tulsa and Oklahoma City sites to full P 25 (9600) capability in the near future! The remaining Oklahoma OKWIN sites will be upgraded in the future as well. As equipment, funds, and time allows, His acquaintance told my friend that project 25 systems don't need to be switched over all at once like some other systems, And that Muskogee county has proven that the radios can, And will work on both (Motorola 3600, and P 25 9600) systems. He also say that the two metro areas will be the priorities. Then the Lawton area after that. Also his acquaintance told him that 2 cities in the OKC metro have received project 25 grants to upgrade their radio equipment, And radio consoles. He told my friend that the town of Forest Park is migrating there police, And fire departments over to OKWIN. And that is all my friend knew, Also this acquittance in Oklahoma told him that city of Oklahoma city will be migrating to there own P 25 phase 2 VoIP system in the future, So the 2 systems will communicate with one another after all is said and done. I really hope this helps you guys there in Oklahoma, take care.

Paul.

P.S. Apparently OKWIN, Or the State of Oklahoma will not allow users to encrypt there dispatch, interoperability, or mutual aid talk groups. FYI.

[HogDriver]

Sure am glad I bought a digital radio! As far as the OKC system will it still be in ProVoice and non-monitorable?

[plaws]

Originally Posted by peterjmag

Why is trunker identifying 851.925 as being associated with the Tulsa site? That is incorrect.

Unless his Unitrunker configuration is goofed up somehow, then that's the actual data coming from the site controller. Like Honey Badger, Site Controller don't care about no licenses, only what's programmed in.

Now, it could be a problem somehow with the configuration. Or an artifact from when the control signal goes goofy (which it does here on Site 40 on occasion, too). You can delete all the frequencies on one of those screens (forget which) and Unitrunker will quickly repopulate the screen. It could be a left-over glitch. But it could easily be a real channel, too.



The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger (original narration by Randall) - do not click if bad words offend you

[PaulSuperman]

Originally Posted by HogDriver

Sure am glad I bought a digital radio! As far as the OKC system will it still be in ProVoice and non-monitorable?

I really don't know, But I did find this. I hope it will assist you.
Oklahoma Office of Homeland Security - Oklahoma City System

Paul

P.S. I love the Honey Badger video.