Failsoft

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Northerner71

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I live in zone 4 and my towers keeps going into failsoft. They come back up in a few seconds but go right back to failsoft, then it is good for awhile and back into failsoft. There isn't any BMR techs talking so I was wondering what exactly is failsoft?
 

Jay911

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Failsoft means, short version, that the trunking controller has packed it in. The system is unable to generate a control channel or maintain trunking capabilities. All transmitters (or specific transmitters, depending on system configuration) will come active (keyed-up) and operate in conventional mode until the trunking controller comes back from its lunch break.

Failsoft is a pretty big deal in a trunk system. All users will be on one frequency (or a few frequencies, again, depending on configuration). There are no talkgroups, no extended features. You won't hear anything on talkgroups (at least, so I'm led to believe - my local system has never fallen over that badly - knock on wood!) because there is no control channel to drive the talkgroups. Look for one of the system frequencies to be "keyed-up" constantly - like I said above. All your traffic will be on there.

There is another failure mode called "site trunking" in a Motorola Smartzone system like Fleetnet is. Site trunking happens when the connectivity between one site and the rest of the network is lost. The site is still happily buzzing away with a control channel, but users on that site will not be able to hear anyone on the rest of the network, and vice-versa. This frequently can put units out of touch with their dispatchers. Some systems have talkgroups which are configured (at the end-user radio level) to only work on certain towers/sites - meaning that when you switch to that TG, the radio must affiliate with tower such-and-such in order to function. That ensures communication in a site trunking situation (so long as you can "see" tower such-and-such, and it's not the one in site trunking).
 

EJB

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Failsoft means, short version, that the trunking controller has packed it in. The system is unable to generate a control channel or maintain trunking capabilities. All transmitters (or specific transmitters, depending on system configuration) will come active (keyed-up) and operate in conventional mode until the trunking controller comes back from its lunch break.

Failsoft is a pretty big deal in a trunk system. All users will be on one frequency (or a few frequencies, again, depending on configuration). There are no talkgroups, no extended features. You won't hear anything on talkgroups (at least, so I'm led to believe - my local system has never fallen over that badly - knock on wood!) because there is no control channel to drive the talkgroups. Look for one of the system frequencies to be "keyed-up" constantly - like I said above. All your traffic will be on there.

There is another failure mode called "site trunking" in a Motorola Smartzone system like Fleetnet is. Site trunking happens when the connectivity between one site and the rest of the network is lost. The site is still happily buzzing away with a control channel, but users on that site will not be able to hear anyone on the rest of the network, and vice-versa. This frequently can put units out of touch with their dispatchers. Some systems have talkgroups which are configured (at the end-user radio level) to only work on certain towers/sites - meaning that when you switch to that TG, the radio must affiliate with tower such-and-such in order to function. That ensures communication in a site trunking situation (so long as you can "see" tower such-and-such, and it's not the one in site trunking).


Does this have anything to do with console work Jay? Most local OPP units are on Tac channels. I am getting a lot of RID'S I never ever get on Trunk 88!
 

Jay911

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I mentioned in the thread about console work (alternate TGs in use) that I have never seen this stuff happen. So I can't say for sure.

But if you are seeing RIDs, it's a pretty safe bet your system is not in failsoft. Failsoft means that no trunking capabilities are functional whatsoever. In essence you have a giant conventional radio system at that point.
 

69stiles

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Here's a paste from the manual to a similar system...

Failsoft mode is generally only noticed in Dispatch as it mostly affects functions used in Dispatch. Radio use and talk groups are as normal, however it is not possible to use higher functions such as patch or simulselect. The system can operate effectively in failsoft mode for a lengthy period of time
 

doogymon

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Hi

Northerner 71.

How can I get a PM to you?

Scanner questions..sorry hijack
Thanks

Doog
 

mikewazowski

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Failsoft mode is generally only noticed in Dispatch as it mostly affects functions used in Dispatch. Radio use and talk groups are as normal, however it is not possible to use higher functions such as patch or simulselect. The system can operate effectively in failsoft mode for a lengthy period of time

Definitely not failsoft mode for a Motorola site.

When a site goes into failsoft, it's lost it's ability to trunk. The control channel disappears which means talkgroups are totally lost.

The voice repeaters all fallback to regular conventional repeaters and users are assigned a specific voice repeater to use. They will end up sharing the system with other users who are assigned to the same voice repeater.

You can tell when a system has gone into failsoft quite easily. The repeaters will remain keyed up and a beep is sent out over the air.
 

mikewazowski

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Fsilsoft doesnt care whether your radio is analog or digital.

That analog radio will be just as useful as a digital radio if the system goes into failsoft.
 

69stiles

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Definitely not failsoft mode for a Motorola site.

When a site goes into failsoft, it's lost it's ability to trunk. The control channel disappears which means talkgroups are totally lost.

The voice repeaters all fallback to regular conventional repeaters and users are assigned a specific voice repeater to use. They will end up sharing the system with other users who are assigned to the same voice repeater.

You can tell when a system has gone into failsoft quite easily. The repeaters will remain keyed up and a beep is sent out over the air.

That discription sounds similar to what we call bypass mode on our Edacs system. Here's another paste....

Level 2 Bypass Mode
In this failure mode, there is a total loss of system control from the control point. Upon loss of system control, three repeater sites will automatically revert to separate trunked radio systems, each with its own control channel and each will serve as a trunked radio system for any mobile or portables which have switched to the Bypass subsystem and are close enough to communicate through the repeater site in their area. While in Bypass mode, all essential users will have one channel per agency to communicate on. Non-essential users are dropped off the system. During the system failure, portable and mobile radios will display a “CC Scan” or “N.C” message on their display screens. Portable and mobile radios must be switched into Bypass mode. If the user is unable to transmit on the Bypass channel, then the system is not in Bypass mode.
 

mikewazowski

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That's known as Site Trunking on a Motorola system.

However, we're taking about Failsoft on a Motorola system so none of that applies.
 
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