Thunder Bay Police Provoice

[scantbay]

Does anyone know if the edacs provoice system being used by Thunder Bay Police is also encrypted?

[exkalibur]

I don't believe they're encrypted. You could run DSD to check before you invest in a proper radio however.

[VE3JSO]

only thing is no scanner will pick up provoice but not sure on the dsd

[scantbay]

I have DSD running off a GRE PSR800 and DSD is showing the provoice decode. The problem is I am getting garbled/underwater voice sounds and I don't know how to fix. I thought that maybe the answer was that it is encrypted and I'm out of luck? Just want to make sure they aren't encrypted and I'm just wasting time finding a solution that isn't there.

Thanks

[VE3JSO]

are you using the pc/if port on the scanner to connect the scanner to the usb on the computer?

i think with the dsd program that you will need a discriminator tap ( i think that what it is called) and i think that on the psr 800 you will have to make one which i don't recommend with an expensive radio like that i would find a cheap older radio for that

[scantbay]

Yes, the PSR800 has built in discriminator audio out to the headphone jack, which is then fed to DSD via the line in on the computer.

[exkalibur]

Can you make a short recording and post it somewhere? That'd help to figure out if there's a decoding problem, or if encryption is being used.

[scantbay]

Excalibur,

I have enclosed a screenshot of DSD showing the provoice decode with the garbled/underwater voice.

I can't attach the voice file as it is too big, even zipped (808 kb). Is there somewhere else I can post it for you to take a listen? It is about a minute in length.

Merry Christmas

[Jay911]

I haven't played with DSD in ages but if I recall correctly "inlvl" of ~40% is preferable. Try to bring up the volume level (via sound card properties under Recording).

[scantbay]

I've tried in levels from zero to 50 with no luck. I think DSD maxes out at 50. Still getting the garbled provoice speech like it is inverted. The PSR 800 seems to work fine passing the discriminator audio to the program and following the talkgroups, just nothing intelligible is coming out of DSD. The audio output is a little clearer/louder when using the -g switch. The PSR 800 allows you to control the discriminator audio output volume level from the front keyboard. I have it set in the mid-twenties, but could this be conflicting in some way with the windows line in recording level settings?

Not sure what to do now. Any help would be appreciated via here or a PM.

Thanks

[Jay911]

When I did some experimental decode of ProVoice, my PSR800's IF-out volume was set to 13 or 14 maximum, and I went into the mic-in/line-in jack on my netbook with a garden variety stereo cable. I made sure the jack was configured to not introduce any "mic boost" features, and fiddled with the Windows volume while receiving until I got an adequate decode. It never sounded like a commercial radio would, but it was intelligible comms.

[scantbay]

Jay911,

I tried 13-14 for the IF out on the PSR800 and then played with the line in levels slider control with no luck. I don't think the system is encrypted as the PSR800 is not showing the E indicator when tracking the transmissions. It's also showing the talkgroup id and the site id. I'm thinking its something in my windows sound settings coming in or going out. I'm on windows 7 with Realtek audio. I have all the boxes in the recording area under the enhancements tab unchecked. I'm using a 3.5 mm stereo audio cable to connect the PSR to the line in jack (from the Source $10.00).

This is driving me nuts as I think I am close but keep getting the same garbled results.

Thanks

[Forts]

I highly doubt the scanner will give any indication if a talkgroup is encrypted... From what I recall, EDACS system do not transmit that info with the talkgroups (which is why UniTrunker et all will only show ProVoice/AEGIS groups as Digial and not Digital/Encrypted). I've used many scanners over the years and they would all show group and radio information on encrypted EDACS systems (Like London) and ones that aren't (Like Chatham).

[MikeOxlong]

I'm really starting to wonder if the system is actually encrypted.

With a couple of major agencies moving off of EDACS systems lately, the upgrade to encryption might have come cheap.

[Forts]

In this area, EDACS is certainly a dying breed. London's is gone, Sarnia's is still running, but has very little activity. Brantford is underway in their upgrade process, which basically leaves Kitchener-Waterloo and Chatham-Kent as the only remaining systems around here.

That being said, I've had no problems decoding Chatham or Brantford's ProVoice with DSD... so my hunch would be that Thunder Bay is either AEGIS or encrypted ProVoice.

[Forts]

.....and just thinking about this a little more. If they were AEGIS then DSD likely wouldn't recognize it... so if it sees it as ProVoice, and there is *0* intelligible audio, I'm guessing it's likely encrypted. I'd love to take a drive up and check for myself, but sometimes I forget how big Ontario actually is!

[scantbay]

I'm thinking that it may be encrypted, but haven't been able to get a definite answer on this. DSD seems to decode fine but just garbled/underwater speech. Is it a setting for the EDACS system that I'm missing on the PSR800 setup maybe? I've tried all different IF output levels from the PSR800 and then the line in level slider bar on the computer with no luck. I'm pretty new to DSD which could also be the problem. The system seems to be EDACS provoice based on sound samples I have heard posted to the web and from seeing some of the portable units in use, although AEGIS does sound similar. They went to this system about six years ago and all the info on it was kept pretty quiet. I would like to get a more definitive answer before giving up though, but if they are encrypted oh well, life goes on with fleetnet for the time being!

[nick96]

The encrypted provoice on DSD sound exactly the same as P25 crypted on our scanner. It's hard too explain but if you have an audio file it will be great.

[slicerwizard]

Originally Posted by scantbay

I can't attach the voice file as it is too big, even zipped (808 kb).

Email the zipped audio to wap at ica.net

[scantbay]

Slicerwizard,

I have emailed you a zipped audio sample.

Thanks