Peel Regional police and York Regional police

[car55]

So you all know that Peel Regional police and York Regional police the radio system is starting to get old . Do you think in 5 or 8 years they will go to new digital system? Any talk that they may go to new digital system?

And if so any talk that it may be full time encryption.

There talk that Toronto police may go to full time encryption in year or two.

[bigcam406]

if youve read the "11 division" thread,you will see that i stated York and others in late 2013 or early 2014.

[car55]

Peel system is moving very very very very fast .By looking at the database they are doing testing on new system for Peel now.

Peel Region (Project 25) Trunking System, Peel Region, Ontario - Scanner Frequencies

Has for if it is going to be encrypted I don't know .May be some other members here know if all the radio have the capability for it or just some radios.If all the radios have the capability than all it comes down to is the chief of police to make the choice to do that.

If anyone may have seen any publications reports on what will be encrypted or if it be full time encrypted.Also if anyone here has any connect or working with police may know more about this.

Looking at the database I have not seen any thing for York system. Well Peel system is moving very fast so really well may be operation in year or just little over year if they doing testing now.

sorry guys but base on this you have may be year left to hear PRP if in fact the chief of police want the new system to be full time encrypted only thing that may take longer if they are waiting for equipment or have problems but that may only delay it bit longer I can't see more than two years.

If it is full time encrypted that will be the first for police department that covers over 1,300,000 people.Most other police department are ( smaller ) under 700,000 people have gone to full time encryption

If Peel and York has money for it than just about every big police department can do it.

And police scanning will be relics of the past.

Toronto may not have the money but may have done bad contract deal and can't do any thing to back down so is forced to go on the new system .The hold up may be waiting for equipment or some radios .Just hope they don't go to full time encryption.The long file should say if all radios are capability for encryption.

[bigcam406]

let me simplify it for you,Toronto,Peel,York,Durham,are all going digitally encrypted.its been in the works for awhile now.

[Jay911]

Originally Posted by mciupa

Hi Lisalolo how's it going?

No no.. think earlier than that. I've said it before: nec208.

Toronto police using digital?

Peel police new radios?

[car55]

No Durham police have been encrypted for some time now.

Toronto police are not using digital yet or Peel police.

Do they have digital radios but using it in analog mode I don't know ? Is 20% of the radios or 90% radios for Peel police or Toronto police support encryption I don't know.

If 20% of the radios for Peel police or Toronto police support encryption it is very unlikely they will be going to full time encryption any time soon unless they have thousands of radios in boxes and have not unpack it yet.


Will they be going to encryption well here is the deal most small to medium size police departments have !!! What is left is for big police departments to pull it off .If big police departments don't go to full time encryption yet it probably be down the road and most likely cost issue why they not doing it now.

When you look at it Peel police they have 1937 officers , YRP 1433 ,
Hamilton 794 , Halton Police 650 , Durham Police 957 , Winnipeg Police 1411 , London Police 578.



Peel Regional Police - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
York Regional Police - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hamilton Police Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Halton Regional Police Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Durham Regional Police Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Winnipeg Police Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
London Police Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



When you look at it Peel police they have 1937 officers , YRP 1433 and Winnipeg Police 1411 that is lot of officer than those smaller departments.!! I don't know about Winnipeg Police but may be they are tight on money now and Peel police they have 1937 officers may be just not practical yet .

I think police always wanted to do this but it really wasn't feasible with analog system now with cost coming down and digital system it more practical now.

Also the federal government or police association may be pushing for it.

Why most police in the US are not doing it in contrast to Canada I don't now , I explain in other thread may be because the US have much higher crime rate than Canada in US cities that the police have to balanced the budget more of getting more cops on street than encryption or the federal government or police association is pushing for it in Canada?

Other theory is so many departments are doing it in Canada they say why not ? I should do it ? Everyone else is doing it.

Only way to tell at this point is to look at the publications reports or log files of how many radio support encryption if 90% of the radios now support encryption you have may be year left to hear them !! Like I say if Peel police or York police DO NOT go to encryption may be they are waiting for equipment or radios and be in 2 or 3 years out unless cost is issue. If cost is issue than it probably be 5 or 10 years to cost comes down.

But looking at trend at some point all police will be full time encryption in Canada.The technology and radios have change so much in 10 years where in 10 years from now it may be practical for EMS and fire to start to do the same.

I look at database and have not seen any testing for York system so I don't know how it can be in operation in year may be in 2 or 3 years out for the York system . I have not seen any contract deals or publications reports for York system .

[MikeOxlong]

Originally Posted by car55

Toronto police are not using digital yet or Peel police.

Both are using digital for special operations. Peel has had it since their current system went in and Toronto has probably had it at least 5 years. Check the database.

[bigcam406]

im well aware Durham has been encrypted since 99,as i live here.i was refering to the new system that will be implemented late this year or early 2014.and as far as York goes,i have seen the paperwork,so its a go as well.just because there isnt any testing going on doesnt mean its being implemented.do you see the pattern of all of the GTA changing over? theres a reason for this...

[car55]

Originally Posted by bigcam406

im well aware Durham has been encrypted since 99,as i live here.i was refering to the new system that will be implemented late this year or early 2014.and as far as York goes,i have seen the paperwork,so its a go as well.just because there isnt any testing going on doesnt mean its being implemented.do you see the pattern of all of the GTA changing over? theres a reason for this...

I was reading that Durham police are using MIKE system ? Not sure what that is or if it is truck system. There nothing in the database for Durham police for some strange reason.

I'm sure it time before Durham police move to digital system like so many police are in Canada.But it probably be encrypted to keep up with the trend.I can't see Durham police being in clear again .

The nature of police in Canada not wanting people to listen in seem to be more rooted in police culture in Canada has even 90's the OPP was putting those squelch sounds when no one was talking was big pain to scan those channels.

[Jay911]

Originally Posted by car55

I was reading that Durham police are using MIKE system ? Not sure what that is or if it is truck system.

If you're not sure what it is, you should trust the people who do know what it is - namely everyone else who has posted in this thread.

Originally Posted by car55

There nothing in the database for Durham police for some strange reason.

The "some strange reason" is that iDEN systems like Durham Regional Police Department are unscannable.

Originally Posted by car55

I'm sure it time before Durham police move to digital system like so many police are in Canada.But it probably be encrypted to keep up with the trend.I can't see Durham police being in clear again

bigcam406 stated quite clearly that DRPD is moving to a new digital system (there is at least one other thread on it in this forum, and it's not hard to find) and that it will be encrypted. Do you not read the posts that other people make?

[bigcam406]

obviously not Jay.

[car55]

Originally Posted by Jay911

If you're not sure what it is, you should trust the people who do know what it is - namely everyone else who has posted in this thread.



The "some strange reason" is that iDEN systems like Durham Regional Police Department are unscannable.



bigcam406 stated quite clearly that DRPD is moving to a new digital system (there is at least one other thread on it in this forum, and it's not hard to find) and that it will be encrypted. Do you not read the posts that other people make?

I have not read all the post here.

I will post a link where I read about the Mike system.

Durham Regional Police Scanning Help

I needed some help with listening into durham regional police in AJAX, ONTARIO. I have read on the internet they they are on encrypted system. What kind of equipment would I need to listen to there radio frequencies. I wanted to buy a digital scanner but I want to make sure it will work with durham police before I buy it.

Thanks for your help if you respond.

You won't be able to listen to DRP. They are on the Telus MiKE system

[Jay911]

Originally Posted by car55

I have not read all the post here.

Then start doing so.

[derevs]

I have not seen this posted on here to date but there is a very good reason for all agencies to go encrypted. It is called PIPEDA, or the Personal Information Protection & Electronic Document Act of the federal government.

A lot of information that goes out over the air is of a personal nature such as addresses & nature of complaint. Some people don't like this and complain to the government.

So if you want to complain about the future of encryption, don't blame the police forces, etc. Look right at the federal government who have probably issued a mandate to the various agencies to protect the information that goes out over the airwaves.

[Tech4064]

Originally Posted by derevs

I have not seen this posted on here to date but there is a very good reason for all agencies to go encrypted. It is called PIPEDA, or the Personal Information Protection & Electronic Document Act of the federal government.

A lot of information that goes out over the air is of a personal nature such as addresses & nature of complaint. Some people don't like this and complain to the government.

So if you want to complain about the future of encryption, don't blame the police forces, etc. Look right at the federal government who have probably issued a mandate to the various agencies to protect the information that goes out over the airwaves.

There is a similar version of that act that affects ambulance in Ontario and it's even more strict, I am amazed it took this long for someone to point this out and you are correct if managers review the act(s) and follow it to the letter or as close as possible they then must encrypt everything and privacy also comes into play with the privacy act. It's not just police, fire and ems but any workplace really and workers especially unionized workers can raise a big stink about why their work activities, locations, accidents, and sometimes reprimands and being broadcast openly to the public and other co-workers, they could sue!

So while emergency services love their privacy sometimes for other reasons you are correct in that they need to be compliant with the various privacy acts. The one affecting ambulance takes it to the extreme but those are the laws.

[car55]

Originally Posted by derevs

I have not seen this posted on here to date but there is a very good reason for all agencies to go encrypted. It is called PIPEDA, or the Personal Information Protection & Electronic Document Act of the federal government.

A lot of information that goes out over the air is of a personal nature such as addresses & nature of complaint. Some people don't like this and complain to the government.

So if you want to complain about the future of encryption, don't blame the police forces, etc. Look right at the federal government who have probably issued a mandate to the various agencies to protect the information that goes out over the airwaves.

Like I explain in other thread there are number of reason police want encryption.

1.People hear a call and go to scene of call and get in way .
2 .Criminals hear a call and take off before the police get there or know the police are coming and get ready to attack them
3.Foot chase or car chase could be bad when police try to set up containment zones.
4. Use of cell phone apps to hear cops are coming.
5. The posting of calls on youtube and the internet really bad and they really hate this and some do this.

The York Region cop getting hit by car and posting his cry for help was very bad move . The incident of a crazy guy on a bus who chop people head off than eating them was very bad move.Not to say calls in the US of school shootings and mall shootings and posting this on the internet.The guy in US who set a house on fire and shooting at firefighters and posting this on the internet.


Now I'm not making excuses for them to go to encryption of just how often this may happen.It would be interesting to see how often this may happen but I'm sure if this was happening 2 or 3 times year they would use MTD alot more and moved to encryption long time ago .


Like I say I'm not hear to rent about why they are going to encryption and the pros and cons of it there are two threads on that where we can talk more about that .

I just ask why the contrast of why most police are moving to encryption in Canada in contrast of the US.not pros and cons of it And like I say this dates back to the 90's where some police where using encryption even the OPP who was putting those squelch sounds when no one was talking

Looking at past threads I have not seen any talk on this.

PIPEDA, or the Personal Information Protection & Electronic Document Act of the federal government.

That is very interesting in the US under the freedom of information act one can get radio traffic , 911 tapes , transcript and camera used in some police cars.

The TV spike has reality TV of camera used in police cars and A&E TV show panic by the freedom of information act.

Many news media also show radio traffic , 911 tapes even the world trade center they got some radio traffic , 911 tapes and transcripts by the freedom of information act .

Many police shows in the US cops fox and police women of Broward County , police women Dallas , police women of Maricopa county and life on beat so on

It really well could be more of US culture thing of showing of police work where Canadian culture is not conformal with these things.

May be because of this and that Canada does NOT have freedom of information act.

The privacy laws may be more strict in Canada. I know Canada does have a TV show called To Serve and Protect but most people faces are blurred out and the cameraman 95% of the time does not go in houses. It mostly in Vancouver and Edmonton ( police cool about doing it there than other police departments) with some specials in Winnipeg and Calgary .

Why the contrast in Canada the only thing I can think of is this.

1 really well may be more of a culture thing where police in the US and government are more cool about this.
2 The US cities have higher crime so balancing the budge is very important to get more cops on street than to go to encryption
3 federal government or police association may be pushing for it
4. privacy laws or freedom of information act
5.So may police departments are doing it that many say why not, we should everyone is doing it.

Not sure why the contrast just some theory I have .


Has for Telus MiKE system for Durham Regional Police I looked at the database and past threads did not see if it is 700MHz or 800 MHz nothing on the frequencies. Is it truck system or some kind of cell phone system? I hardly remember long go on yahoo group reading it some kind of cell phone system radio hybrid. But that was long ago so my mind is very rusty on it.

[kayn1n32008]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 6_1_2 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10B146 Safari/8536.25)

TELUS Mike operates at 800MHz. It is a kind of TRUNK, not truck, system. A quick search in TAFL would have given you that answer. Try using googling iDEN and find out the answer.

[car55]

Originally Posted by kayn1n32008

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 6_1_2 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10B146 Safari/8536.25)

TELUS Mike operates at 800MHz. It is a kind of TRUNK, not truck, system. A quick search in TAFL would have given you that answer. Try using googling iDEN and find out the answer.

I don't see TAFL Durham County, Ontario (ON) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

Also what is TAFL?

[exkalibur]

Canada has a Freedom of Information Act. It is called the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act (FIPPA). As for why Canada seems to encrypt more than the United States - in the US, every county has its own Police Service so it seems. Law Enforcement is much different down there than up here. This makes a lot of Police agencies in Canada larger than their US counterparts and therefore a larger budget. When you think about Ontario for example, there really aren't a lot of small Police Services out there.

[kayn1n32008]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 6_1_2 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10B146 Safari/8536.25)

Originally Posted by car55

I don't see TAFL Durham County, Ontario (ON) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

Also what is TAFL?

You must not be Canadian, TAFL: Technical Administrative Frequency List. A database Industry Canada maintains listing all LMR licenses in Canada, it is public except for those agencies (RCMP, and other public safety agencies) that do not want their LMR allocations public.

This http://sd.ic.gc.ca/pls/engdoc_anon/web_search.licensee_name_results link will lead you to the licenses that TELUS has with industry Canada. To view mike frequencies click on the ones that have iDEN in the title.