RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > Canada Radio Discussion Forums > Ontario

Ontario Forum for discussing radio information in the province of Ontario.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2014, 3:56 PM
Bullmax's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London, ON
Posts: 336
Default No more OPP?

I heard we won't be able to listen because the calls will be going to their mobile work stations (MWS). Does anyone know if this is true?
__________________
BCT8, BCD396XT
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2014, 6:33 PM
Forts's Avatar
Mentor
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Strathroy, Ontario Canada
Posts: 3,935
Default

No, not true. There will always be over the air traffic... many agencies have been using MWS's for years already, as have the OPP (just not widespread). They will be used more for MTO checks and such, not so much dispatching calls (although I'm sure 'sensitive' details could be sent via the workstation). Think about it for a second... when multiple officers are enroute to a call and details are coming in, they can't be reading a computer screen. You'll never replace the radio for that. If you ever listen to St Thomas PD you will hear them mention 'Spark' quite a bit. That's the instant messaging app they use on their workstations (which they have had for years). London Police have used workstations since the 90's... they were one of the first major departments to backhaul all the data over the EDACS system and not use some sort of cell link.
__________________
Middlesex County/Strathroy-Caradoc Fire Paging Alerts: http://groups.google.com/group/middlesex-fire
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2014, 6:36 PM
Bullmax's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London, ON
Posts: 336
Default No more OPP?

Thanks Forts, that's what I thought but just wanted to make sure.

They better not go encripted!!
__________________
BCT8, BCD396XT
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2014, 7:02 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Timmins, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 410
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullmax View Post
They better not go encripted!!
I know!

Imagine the cost en encrypting a province-wide system! It's expensive for a city, imagine a province. OPP does have encrypted TGs use by specific units like CISO and Intelligence. I read somewhere in this section of the forum that the OPP are talking of encrypting their TGs. I don't know about that... I don't know of a province-wide encrypted system in Canada nor the US. It would just be a BIGGG waste of money!!!!

Only time will tell.
__________________
Ralph
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2014, 7:07 PM
Forts's Avatar
Mentor
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Strathroy, Ontario Canada
Posts: 3,935
Default

According to all the scuttlebutt Fleetnet is due for a major upgrade around 2017. Rumor has is the system will be upgraded to the Astro25 platform (100% digital for all users). If this is indeed the case I'd be shocked if the OPP didn't go encrypted at that point. But as you mention it will come down to the almighty $$. They will make their case that they need new radios because their current Spectra's are EOL, can't get parts, etc etc and it will go from there. And in fairness, that part is true....
__________________
Middlesex County/Strathroy-Caradoc Fire Paging Alerts: http://groups.google.com/group/middlesex-fire
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2014, 10:21 PM
robertmac's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,221
Default

RCMP in southern Alberta are on MWS and the radio activity is next to dead. Occasionally there will be activity but it is down 90%. When you take out all the welfare checks, it is down 95%. Really doesn't matter if they do go encrypted. As stated, generally hear RCMP when a couple of cars are responding to a vehicle accident or a chase [but most chases are now called off].
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2014, 10:23 PM
uncleblackie's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Nipissing District, Ontario
Posts: 107
Default

Yes you are correct, a lot of the calls will go out over the mws.

Just ask those that listened to halton before and after they upgraded and see if they noticed a difference. Or those that had been listening to York region or any other force that adopted MDT/MWS. When I used to live in York you could actually decode their ist generation mdt's. Don't live there anymore so I don't know if it's still possible.

For the departments that upgraded to them, for the first year or so scanner listeners would not notice much difference but as the forces that adopted the technology became more adept at using them to their full capabilities (and once the whole fleet was equipped), they quickly realized they could send out group calls, group bolos and any other important FYI group messages that they did not want going out over the air.

Yes you will still hear the "on scene chatter" but if you don't know where the scene is since the original call was sent via mws then it's almost the same as having encryption. :-(
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2014, 1:19 AM
kirk23's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pierrefonds (West Island Montreal) Qc Canada
Posts: 384
Default

The SPVM Montreal Police went to MDTs many years ago. Their plan was to put out everything to the MDTs but that never happened. Routine non urgent calls plus license checks are done on the MDTs but they still dispatch all urgent and priority calls both vocal and on the MDT. This is so officers that are out of the vehicles..foot patrol..under cover cars.. and motorcycle officers will hear all important calls. I am sure the OPP with follow the same pattern.
__________________
Kirk
Pierrefonds (Montreal) Qc. Canada

BCD-396XT......BCD-996XT.....PRO-96......BC-760XLT.....BC-200XLT
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2014, 4:08 PM
Muxlow's Avatar
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Middlesex County
Posts: 1,680
Default

Just a note here. Iv herd Lambton County officers using their "MDS" as they call it, quite a bit the last few weeks. Seems they have a lot of issues with signing on/off from the car. But still alot of calls are going out over the air
__________________
Muxlow
..Yeah iv got some radios
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
        
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2014, 10:04 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: York, Ontario
Posts: 2,214
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rc1990 View Post
I don't know of a province-wide encrypted system in Canada nor the US.Only time will tell.
I don't know of any Province-wide systems in the US either.

The RCMP in Manitoba are starting to roll out encryption, and they're already encrypted in Saskatchewan if I'm not mistaken.

The cost to encrypt these days really isn't even a factor. I wouldn't be at all surprised if manufacturers will start offering encryption as a standard option, as Motorola already does in their MotoTRBO line.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 8:51 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleblackie View Post
Yes you are correct, a lot of the calls will go out over the mws.

Yes you will still hear the "on scene chatter" but if you don't know where the scene is since the original call was sent via mws then it's almost the same as having encryption. :-(
In the Greater Toronto area they are putting a lot of calls out over the computers now and you hear the scene chatter and wonder why you didn't hear the dispatch, I am not sure what the ratio is for over the air to computer dispatch or maybe for now it's whatever works at the moment but I think the younger officers who grew up with computers actually prefer to push a status button on a touch screen and have a GPS take them to a call, same with the fire departments and ems who have the computers, the younger ones love em and wouldn't want to use radios and paper map books.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 8:58 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forts View Post
According to all the scuttlebutt Fleetnet is due for a major upgrade around 2017. Rumor has is the system will be upgraded to the Astro25 platform (100% digital for all users). If this is indeed the case I'd be shocked if the OPP didn't go encrypted at that point. But as you mention it will come down to the almighty $$. They will make their case that they need new radios because their current Spectra's are EOL, can't get parts, etc etc and it will go from there. And in fairness, that part is true....
The OPP in the GTA have all new radios already, not sure about the rest of the province, the contract for use of fleetnet was extended to 2017 and then I guess the new and improved fleetnet will be ready. We can expect OPP to be encrypted as almost every other police force is going that way, EMS might be a different story, they could all be leaving Fleetnet and going on their local county radio systems and many counties are building TRBO systems or P25. What would make sense and I think was talked about was for all rural fire departments to join the new and improved fleetnet but I'll believe it when I see it as many are upgrading to TRBO now.

I wonder if the provincial government has awarded a contract yet for the Fleetnet upgrade?
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 9:57 AM
davidmc36's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: South East Ontario
Posts: 1,932
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech4064 View Post
....rural fire departments.....
Set up with their own P25 system in Leeds Grenville.

Sounds real good too.

Leeds and Grenville county fire
__________________
Personal Weather Station No Bounce, No Play.
The one who dies with the most toys wins.
Even though hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, stupidity is a close second.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 1:22 PM
EJB's Avatar
EJB EJB is offline
Member
   
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Halton Region Aldershot
Posts: 3,044
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech4064 View Post
The OPP in the GTA have all new radios already, not sure about the rest of the province, the contract for use of fleetnet was extended to 2017 and then I guess the new and improved fleetnet will be ready. We can expect OPP to be encrypted as almost every other police force is going that way, EMS might be a different story, they could all be leaving Fleetnet and going on their local county radio systems and many counties are building TRBO systems or P25. What would make sense and I think was talked about was for all rural fire departments to join the new and improved fleetnet but I'll believe it when I see it as many are upgrading to TRBO now.

I wonder if the provincial government has awarded a contract yet for the Fleetnet upgrade?
Everyone here asks the same questions, so much speculation. Be pro-active and email your MPP, the minister in charge or the Preem. If the OPP are policing your community then email them or a city/regional/mayor council person.

These people are at your service, we don't live in Crimea or North Korea, you have the right to ask.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 3:19 PM
unlisted's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 571
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by exkalibur View Post
... RCMP ...already encrypted in Saskatchewan if I'm not mistaken.
Yes, they most certainly are.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 3:27 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the 'patch
Posts: 2,327
Default No more OPP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by unlisted View Post
Yes, they most certainly are.

And BC is rolling out conventional P25, with full time AES-256 encryption to replace their analog system. Alberta is building a new p25 system, and if the RCMP use it I would bet a paycheque it will be fully encrypted as well. Manitoba is doing the same, AES-256 on MTS fleetnet.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Interoperatablity is not a technology it is an attitude!!!
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 4:40 PM
Muxlow's Avatar
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Middlesex County
Posts: 1,680
Default

OPP in Lambton use "iMobile" for incar software.. Another day of officers not able to log into the system or access anything via their "MDS"
__________________
Muxlow
..Yeah iv got some radios
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2014, 7:34 PM
FoeHammer's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Windsor Ontario
Posts: 539
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EJB View Post
Everyone here asks the same questions, so much speculation. Be pro-active and email your MPP, the minister in charge or the Preem. If the OPP are policing your community then email them or a city/regional/mayor council person.

These people are at your service, we don't live in Crimea or North Korea, you have the right to ask.
Correct we don't live in Crimea or North Korea , They work for you ,...They should Be Asking YOU what level of ENC you agree with & approve...

Last edited by FoeHammer; 03-04-2014 at 7:43 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2014, 1:58 AM
EJB's Avatar
EJB EJB is offline
Member
   
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Halton Region Aldershot
Posts: 3,044
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoeHammer View Post
Correct we don't live in Crimea or North Korea , They work for you ,...They should Be Asking YOU what level of ENC you agree with & approve...
I should probably keep my comments to myself, every one has an opinion just like everyone has.....lmAo.

I have been reading on this site and an old Yahoo site that Toronto is going to switch....soon, in 2010, 2011, 2015, etc etc blah blah blah.

I see people posting here that Hamilton was going to switch late in the early 2000's, they switched in 2012.

There were documents with actual city council meetings that spelled out that a switch was going to happen. And it did, a few years later than expected but it happened. If we have learned anything, its that politics takes time. I'll leave it at that.

There are rules concerning complaining about encryption on this site. You also can't swear, you can't slam other people, good rules albeit the mods really take their jobs so seriously it's sometimes laughable.

A new rule concerning these questions might be something to consider, please don't ask if Halton, Hamilton or Hazzard County will be switching or when. Speculation does nothing.

One of the first things about this site, it was driven by a database that members painstakingly helped to create. The forums were a place to talk about whats going on, not to drive the site. I have mentioned enough times on here for members to invest some time and effort to write wiki articles about what would you expect to hear on your scanner if you were in a specific area but I am both tired of the lack of action and I really dont care all that much anymore, bigger fish to fry and I don't feel like fishing so to speak.

This will be the last time I do this (I am very well aware that a cheer by members and some of the super mods is deafening, Eric, that sarcastic pompous, yutz is again babbling but he might actually stop posting about this). I urge anyone who lives in a specific region to ask those who know what is actually going on. If you choose to post it, great, if not, you tried.

We are at the end of what has been a very eventful hobby as departments make it harder or impossible for us to scan, it would be nice to prepare when we can expect to use our scanners as paperweights or ornaments.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2014, 5:14 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Earth Sector 001
Posts: 561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muxlow View Post
Just a note here. Iv herd Lambton County officers using their "MDS" as they call it, quite a bit the last few weeks. Seems they have a lot of issues with signing on/off from the car. But still alot of calls are going out over the air
Same in Renfrew County. I have noticed no drop in comm traffic.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 7:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2011 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions