800MHz TG, Portland Metro

[Gezelle007]

While decoding the WCCCA/CCOM backbone, I just saw TGID 10704 come up. 10704 is not in the db for the Washington Co side, however that is the ID for Portland PD North. As I understand it, the 3 main 800 systems in the area all use different talk group IDs:

So is it possible for a Multnomah Co unit to affiliate and talk to their dispatch through the other two 800 systems?

[PMJ2kx]

Do you have a radio ID that hit 10704? I want to cross-reference it with what I have...

[Gezelle007]

Originally Posted by PMJ2kx

Do you have a radio ID that hit 10704? I want to cross-reference it with what I have...

Sorry, I do not. It's only logged 142 talk groups so far and about 3 thousand radios. All from the wccca/ccom system. The 10704 tg is the lowest talk group it's seen. Everything else is in the 5-6XXXX range.

[Gezelle007]

..I just figured out that this program keeps logs.. I searched back and found the instance. It was radio ID 20233, it affiliated to the TG 10704 on the WCCCA/CCOM Backbone at around 16:00.

[DickH]

Originally Posted by Gezelle007

...
So is it possible for a Multnomah Co unit to affiliate and talk to their dispatch through the other two 800 systems?

It doesn't seem to work that way. When a Portland engine responds to a Clackamas fire we usually switch to OPS-26 (TG 51216) on the Clackamas system and they are not heard on the Portland system.

By the way, there are 4 similar Motorola systems in the Portland area.
Multnomah county - TGs 0 to 39999.
WCCCA/Clackamas - TGs 50000 & 60000s
Clark county - TGs 40000s

[Gezelle007]

Originally Posted by DickH

It doesn't seem to work that way. When a Portland engine responds to a Clackamas fire we usually switch to OPS-26 (TG 51216) on the Clackamas system and they are not heard on the Portland system.

Ah yeah, Someone had told me before that you don't switch zones, just change channels and the average user doesn't even realize they're switching systems.

However what I'm wondering is if someone was down here in McMinnville or something, if they turned on their radio and went to PPB Central or another Multnomah TG, if their radio would use the Washington/Clackamas County system as a intellirepeater and bring audio through so you could hear. Because I can't receive the Multnomah system at all from down here- way too much terrain in the way. But the WCCCA/CCOM system comes in just fine around here.

Either that or it would probably just say "OUT OF RANGE" or something. It's just odd that that TG showed up on this system.

Originally Posted by DickH

By the way, there are 4 similar Motorola systems in the Portland area.
Multnomah county - TGs 0 to 39999.
WCCCA/Clackamas - TGs 50000 & 60000s
Clark county - TGs 40000s

Do you count the WCCCA/CCOM system as two or is there a fourth that I have not looked up?

[PMJ2kx]

Originally Posted by Gezelle007

..I just figured out that this program keeps logs.. I searched back and found the instance. It was radio ID 20233, it affiliated to the TG 10704 on the WCCCA/CCOM Backbone at around 16:00.

I don't have the exact match, but it's in the same range as other WCSO radios.

And Newberg is technically the 4th system, but their TGIDs fall within WCCCA's allocation (52560 to 53392).

[Gezelle007]

Originally Posted by PMJ2kx

I don't have the exact match, but it's in the same range as other WCSO radios.

And Newberg is technically the 4th system, but their TGIDs fall within WCCCA's allocation (52560 to 53392).

Gotcha, thanks.

[DickH]

Originally Posted by Gezelle007

...
Do you count the WCCCA/CCOM system as two or is there a fourth that I have not looked up?

Yes, it's two systems, but some parts are tied together. How? I have no idea. Why? Also no idea.
Newburg is not a system, just some TG's on the WCCCA system. A system has their own towers, control channels and Talk Groups.

[mjohnston4]

WCCCA and CCOM are somehow tied together, I can scan my radio from CCOM channels (same with Newberg). Other than Portland, what about Clark County?

[DickH]

Originally Posted by mjohnston4

WCCCA and CCOM are somehow tied together, I can scan my radio from CCOM channels (same with Newberg). Other than Portland, what about Clark County?

See post #5 in this thread.

[Isolinear]

I have a semi-related question, how does a private business go about utilizing or leasing a talkgroup on the Portland 800MHz system? I work for a company that needs a radio comms solution that works in the urban building-filled environment of downtown Portland, as well as across Washington county out to Hillsboro, and out east into Gresham, and north into Vancouver. We tried Day Wireless but reception isn't good enough and the UHF radios couldn't be relied upon. Even Nextel direct connect is spotty in certain parts of Gresham. Reason I ask is because both SmartPark and Portland Patrol, Inc. have talkgroups assigned to them, and they are private businesses, not public agencies, so there must be a way to do it.

Does anyone know how to go about setting this up, or know of another comms solution for such a wide area? Thanks.

[PMJ2kx]

Originally Posted by Isolinear

Does anyone know how to go about setting this up, or know of another comms solution for such a wide area? Thanks.

First name that comes to mind (besides Day Wireless) is Silke Communications.
Silke Communications: Home

As for actually getting on the 800Mhz system, unless you're a security firm that works with PPB on a regular basis (like Portland Patrol), I doubt you can get access. The agency you need to contact is Portland Bureau of Technology Services.

[joescanner]

If a subscriber roams onto a foreign system, and then returns to their "home" system, you can see odd affiliations like that. (I've got GBs of them.)

Also, there are only 3 distinct public safety trunked systems in the 4-county (5-county?) area:
372A - Portland (BTS/ComNet)
290F - WCCCA/CCOM/Newberg (The original single-site Motorola system with ID 4A3D was incorporated into the WCCCA backbone a couple years ago)
542B - Clark County (CRESA)

The radios for each system will roam (within their own system) to the site with the "best" RSSI (as determined by the protocol in the radio). Subscribers can be (and are) programmed to "ignore" certain sites unless they are the best available, to avoid overloading low capacity sites.

So, yes, it is entirely possible to hear WCCCA traffic on the "CCOM" sites, and vice-versa.

You (generally speaking) will not hear any BTS/ComNet traffic on the WCCCA system nor CRESA traffic (specific exceptions for this one due to legacy interoperability agreements) on BTS/ComNet.

[Isolinear]

For the past few evenings on the Portland 800MHz system, I've heard what sounds like pursuit training scenarios on talkgroup 208, which is listed as "Multnomah County B" interoperability net. I've heard callsigns 1-Lincoln-1, 3-Lincoln-1, 3-Lincoln-2, 5-Mary-20, Henry-3, Henry-14. I also heard mention of S-curves, a PIT area, and a straightaway.

Is there a law enforcement training track around here or could they have been at PIR? Also would this be PPB or another agency, or being an interop net, more than one agency? My final question would be why are they using this talkgroup when PPB has training talkgroups?

[pdx911]

Originally Posted by Isolinear

For the past few evenings on the Portland 800MHz system, I've heard what sounds like pursuit training scenarios on talkgroup 208, which is listed as "Multnomah County B" interoperability net. I've heard callsigns 1-Lincoln-1, 3-Lincoln-1, 3-Lincoln-2, 5-Mary-20, Henry-3, Henry-14. I also heard mention of S-curves, a PIT area, and a straightaway.

Is there a law enforcement training track around here or could they have been at PIR? Also would this be PPB or another agency, or being an interop net, more than one agency? My final question would be why are they using this talkgroup when PPB has training talkgroups?

It is at PIR and it is MCSO deputies doing pursuit training. All this week and next week I believe.

[Isolinear]

Originally Posted by pdx911

It is at PIR and it is MCSO deputies doing pursuit training. All this week and next week I believe.

Looks like KGW did a spot on the PIR training. 9 agencies in total.
kgw.com | Portland Breaking News Video - KGW.com