Guns? Who has guns?

[freqs]

A K Mart 410 single shot first gun I git when I was a kid 1975
A 1959 Remmington 878 semi auto 12 gage
2 M1 Chrome plated Parade guns non working found in a dumpster I pulled out of a VFW that was remodeling

[Exsmokey]

Here is my lineup:

Remington 11 - 12 gauge shotgun. 84 years old. Inherited from a great uncle.
Mossberg 590A1 - 12 gauge shotgun. 9 shot, ghost ring sight and tactical flashlight.
Remington 24 - 22 caliber rifle. 14 shot (only shoots shorts). Inherited from my grandfather.
Mossberg 320 KA - 22 caliber rifle. Single shot, bolt action. My dad purchased for me at when I was 14.

The Mossberg 590A1 is strictly a home defense weapon. I do not boast about my gun ownership relative to shooting someone. I have witnessed first hand how doing so changes lives, turns stomachs for years or decades to come and become the catalyst for the PTSD that can follow. My own observations have been that almost everyone suffers from PTSD following a shooting. Effective help is available now that was not available pre the mid 90's. To be effective the treatment must start very quickly after the incident. Using this weapon would have to be more than my last option. I've had friends that have had to shoot someone. I don't talk about the above other than to point out the the negative effects of defending oneself. So I do not answer questions about this nor do I participate in discussions of same.

I chose a pump action due to the well documented deterrent that the sound of pumping one provides. I have two friends who have successfully used this deterrent in civilian venues. The sound of a pump action shotgun seems to be almost universally recognized. The 590A1 resides under my bed with a full magazine and a chamber lock. I would probably not do this if children resided in my home. The chamber lock meets the requirements of the California Department of Justice. California is the only state that I'm aware of with standards for gun storage. Mine requires the use of a key as I could not find any trigger or chamber locks that utilize a combination lock and pass the requirements . The key is readily available but extremely difficult to find for anyone but my wife and I.

The rifles are fun to shoot. I love the challenge of controlling muscles, breathing, timing, eyes and mind to achieve the objective. My dad used to throw bottles in the air to teach me how to shoot the bolt action 22.

The Remington shotgun has been used to hunt birds and shoot skeet. The challenge of shooting skeet is similar to target shooting with a rifle, but with the added element of surprise and a limited time to exercise skills.

I no longer live in a small town, under 1,000 residents by my definition, in a remote location. Using a gun for self-defense is more of a need there than in a town of 7,500 such as I live in now. I became accustomed to having a shotgun available after someone had the %#lls to break into my home in a remote ranger station housing compound where I lived. We think the burglar left as we arrived home, aborting the attempt to steal something. Many people in remote New Mexico hate the Forest Service so there may have been other motives involved. That's when the Remington shotgun came out of its case to reside behind the bedroom door with shells in its magazine.

I dislike the NRA. I strongly disagree with the relatively recently passed law allowing gun possession in National Parks. I see nothing wrong with regulating gun ownership in large cities, most especially for handguns. I think CCW permits should be available, but with a national qualification standard much like POST, which would include classroom time that includes pictures of what I have seen and video interviews of those who have shot people. The standards for issuing a CCW permit by a local authority don't exist in many jurisdictions and are not restrictive enough in most cases.

I don't normally visit The Tavern nor post here. So many people respond to my posts as if they are talking about the battle of Armageddon that will result from my not being on their side of the line they have drawn in the sand.

[com501]

Exsmokey -

I am assuming you are a POST academy graduate, by some of your remarks.

Why on earth you still live in Kalifornia as a gun owner is beyond me. When my department stopped routinely issuing CCWs for officers and only did so upon request, and when they informed me that I had to carry my own liability insurance, and the department 'might' not represent me in case of an on the job shooting, I decided it was nearing the end. When I was required by DOJ to register my personal carry weapons as assault weapons, it was time to leave.

Why you would be against anyone carrying ANYWHERE, including National Parks is beyond me. Ever come across a growing operation accidentally? Ever had to be involved in hunting down a 'trail side killer'?

I do agree that there should be a NATIONAL concealed carry standard, and it should be as stringent as the FBI qualification. That being said, it should also be a NATIONAL permit.

I think a shoot, don't shoot training is essential for anyone who is not POST certified. I believe there should be NO EMPHASIS on escalation of force for civilians. There are individual differences in some states as far as duty to retreat, etc, but for most CCW holders, its straight from fisticuffs to a weapon. Not many civilians carry OC or a taser. (Most don't live in Nevada, either!)

Here is where we part company. If you are legally allowed to own a weapon under the Second Amendment, and haven't been convicted of a felony which removes your rights, you should be able to purchase, own, posess, shoot and carry ANY weapon, regardless of where it is. The only exception being the traditional Federal, State and Local Government offices. I don't even think schools should be off limits. I can remember many years in Kalifornia, where we in high school routinely had our Winchesters or other weapons in our pickup trucks parked in the parking lot. No gun ever jumped out and shot someone. If citizens were better trained and able to take care of themselves, there would be a lot less crime and whacko liberal ideas about gun safety. Like locking up a gun in your own house. Teach your kids how to shoot, and teach them HANDS OFF unless they need to use it to defend themselves.

Once again, move out of Kalifornia, before you have to turn in all your weapons and they make fish habitat out of them.

[com501]

For those who are uninformed reading this thread:

It is not illegal for a citizen of the United States who is in good graces with the FBI and ATF to own, posess and shoot a fully automatic weapon. Many states would prefer you didn't, and do everything they can to prevent it, and some are succesful. I can name two of my friends, however, who were able to successfully own machine guns in Kalifornia. Many states are much easier. Machine guns are expensive, difficult to register and costly to feed, this is why it is more of an exclusive club, but you CAN do it, in most areas. More should.

[rescue161]

Originally Posted by com501

For those who are uninformed reading this thread:

It is not illegal for a citizen of the United States who is in good graces with the FBI and ATF to own, posess and shoot a fully automatic weapon. Many states would prefer you didn't, and do everything they can to prevent it, and some are succesful. I can name two of my friends, however, who were able to successfully own machine guns in Kalifornia. Many states are much easier. Machine guns are expensive, difficult to register and costly to feed, this is why it is more of an exclusive club, but you CAN do it, in most areas. More should.

Agreed. Intro NFA weapons are gonna run you about $3,000.00 PLUS. An M10, M11, Reising M50, or an AC556 are your cheapest options as of today (Feb 2012). An M16 is gonna start around $10,000.00 for a conversion, around $14,000.00 for an M16A1, and around $20,000.00 PLUS for an M16A2.

[com501]

I have an M2, 1919a6, M60 as well as several others, including a Glock 18 on my CCW.

Very costly, but loads of fun.

[Exsmokey]

Originally Posted by com501

Exsmokey -

I am assuming you are a POST academy graduate, by some of your remarks.

Why on earth you still live in Kalifornia as a gun owner is beyond me. When my department stopped routinely issuing CCWs for officers and only did so upon request, and when they informed me that I had to carry my own liability insurance, and the department 'might' not represent me in case of an on the job shooting, I decided it was nearing the end. When I was required by DOJ to register my personal carry weapons as assault weapons, it was time to leave.

Why you would be against anyone carrying ANYWHERE, including National Parks is beyond me. Ever come across a growing operation accidentally? Ever had to be involved in hunting down a 'trail side killer'?

I do agree that there should be a NATIONAL concealed carry standard, and it should be as stringent as the FBI qualification. That being said, it should also be a NATIONAL permit.

I think a shoot, don't shoot training is essential for anyone who is not POST certified. I believe there should be NO EMPHASIS on escalation of force for civilians. There are individual differences in some states as far as duty to retreat, etc, but for most CCW holders, its straight from fisticuffs to a weapon. Not many civilians carry OC or a taser. (Most don't live in Nevada, either!)

Here is where we part company. If you are legally allowed to own a weapon under the Second Amendment, and haven't been convicted of a felony which removes your rights, you should be able to purchase, own, posess, shoot and carry ANY weapon, regardless of where it is. The only exception being the traditional Federal, State and Local Government offices. I don't even think schools should be off limits. I can remember many years in Kalifornia, where we in high school routinely had our Winchesters or other weapons in our pickup trucks parked in the parking lot. No gun ever jumped out and shot someone. If citizens were better trained and able to take care of themselves, there would be a lot less crime and whacko liberal ideas about gun safety. Like locking up a gun in your own house. Teach your kids how to shoot, and teach them HANDS OFF unless they need to use it to defend themselves.

Once again, move out of Kalifornia, before you have to turn in all your weapons and they make fish habitat out of them.

National Parks are wildlife preserves and no hunting is allowed. It is extremely difficult to enforce poaching. Now someone with a gun can just claim they shot an animal and didn't know where the boundary was. All the bear gall bladder trade people can now carry a gun in a park and left alone when they have it in plain site. Now shooting bears will be easier. A bear shooting individual could be relieved of his weapon long before getting to the target.

It is illegal to discharge a weapon in a National Park as it is in National Forest wilderness. Emergency use for self defense is allowed of course. If I came upon a pot grow I would just back out slowly in an attempt to not cause a confrontation. If I had a weapon showing I think I would be shot very quickly. You are usually in the sights of snipers by the time you discover the grow. As for finding these in a National Park, most pot growing occurs in very low elevations, not the places I would visit in the summer or winter.

When I backpack I count each ounce and carrying a weapon would put me over the comfortable weight I like to carry. I have OC spray available to me both in the backcountry, cars and my house. I also have things in my cars and at home that would make good defensive weapons, such as our extendable snow brooms/ice scrapers. I carry a shovel and axe on my 4WD and I've found a shovel to be a very good defensive weapon.

If you saw where I live you would understand why I live here. I stayed in California much longer than I expected. I had a mother that needed me closer than I would have if I had transferred. I met my wife just about the time I thought I would transfer and she had a good job allowing us to be DINKS (double income no kids) for quite a few years. My mother just passed away this last summer, but I have family in California and in Arizona that I want to stay close to.

My life does not revolve around my guns. I can go years without shooting them. The area I live in has superb road bicycle riding, incredible hiking, the second largest designated wilderness in the lower 48 states and a county that is large in area, but only has 13,000 some residents. The wonderful remoteness of the eastern Sierra and Nevada to the east keeps me here. The topography of the eastern Sierra is stunning. That is why my stated location in my header is "on the right side of California," referring to where the area is on a California map.

I've lived in three other states and California is the best of the four I've lived in. Very good fire and police departments. Working with them was a pleasure, at least most of the time. As a firefighter part of the time, I found working with the agencies that invented ICS to be very good. The state has the best state park agency in the country and the best state forestry agency. The state has the best EMS coverage of anywhere I've lived and an outstanding highway patrol. I've worked traffic accidents in remote areas in other states and have seen the difference these agencies can make.

The term "Kalifornia" is not accurate. If other states had as high of population as California they would find it necessary to have more laws than the more rural states in the west. As population grows there is the potential for more conflicts having to do with land uses, building codes, environmental concerns and the list goes on. The need for more laws and regulations is greater than in rural states such as Idaho, Wyoming and Montana. The metro areas growing in the west are finding out they need some of the same laws and regulations found in many large metro areas in California. During my time in Arizona and New Mexico the lack of laws for real estate subdividing and development led to a lot of conflict and a great deal of fraud resulted, hurting a lot of people. Laws to prevent this sort of thing had been passed in California several decades prior.

California has a good university system. Unlike many other states, researchers have the freedom to do stem cell research under codified guidelines. Other states have passed laws to prohibit this, and in my opinion, have done this based on a lot of emotion/hysteria. One of my nephews is a professor at University of California, Santa Barbara and is using stem cells to see if some diseases can be treated. It will likely take decades of research before anything useful is developed and researchers need that freedom to move in that direction. .

California is wonderfully diverse. The north coast with the tallest trees in the world, the Sierra with the largest trees in the world, the oldest tree in the world on the National Forest I retired from, the incredible central coast, remarkable deserts, rural farming/ranching areas and lots of lakes and rivers. The history and cultural resources are amazing.

Like I said, there is a lot more to living in a place than gun ownership.

[lowboy654]

I will just say say I am well armed and then some.

[com501]

Is there a difference between a National Forest and a National Forest Wilderness?

We go shooting in the National Forest all the time. No one even bats an eye about it.

I didn't get a bear hunting permit this year, although there are plenty of bear in the Tahoe area that can certainly be gotten rid of.

Kalifornia is a place, sadly, going to the dogs and lefty liberals. Enjoy. When the criminals have more rights than you do, in your own home, its time to move. Most sane people have.

[canav844]

10-43 subject is known to have a 10-32. This is a scanner forum afterall.

[divemaster500]

In my humble opioin, I can never have too many firearm's or enough ammo!

I guy in Pennsylvania got pulled over by the Police. He hands the officer his license, vehicle information and Concealed Carry Permit. The officer ask's the driver if he is carrying a weapon. The driver states that he has a Kimber 1911 .45 as a side-arm, a Glock 9mm in the glove box, a 12 guage sawed off shotgun under the seat, a Bushmaster AR-15 in the trunk and a Smith .38 cal in his boot. The officer ask the driver what he is afraid of, to which the driver reply's absolutely nothing!!

[Exsmokey]

Originally Posted by com501

Is there a difference between a National Forest and a National Forest Wilderness?

We go shooting in the National Forest all the time. No one even bats an eye about it.

I didn't get a bear hunting permit this year, although there are plenty of bear in the Tahoe area that can certainly be gotten rid of.

Kalifornia is a place, sadly, going to the dogs and lefty liberals. Enjoy. When the criminals have more rights than you do, in your own home, its time to move. Most sane people have.

The federal Wilderness System are those federal lands that have been designated by the Congress to preserve their primitive nature. The are no roads, permanent structures (save those necessary to administer the wilderness such as backcountry ranger stations), competitive events (such as foot races, paintball matches), no wheeled forms of transportation (bicycles, wheeled game carts) and no hang gliders nor aircraft landing. In certain wilderness areas landing strips pre-dated the wilderness designation and are allowed to continue.

Wilderness areas can be designated on National Park Service units, National Forests, National Grasslands, National Wildlife Refuges and public lands administered by the Bureau of Land Management.

The discharge of firearms is not permitted in most wilderness areas except for the taking of wildlife where hunting is legal. That rules out target shooting.

There are areas of non-wilderness National Forest land where shooting is prohibited. These usually surround towns and/or are located in areas of concentrated recreation use. The latter contain resorts, campgrounds, historic sites, picnic areas and such. Shooting within 450 feet of any of those developments, from or across roads and across bodies of water is also prohibited. When many of these features are within proximity of each other then it is considered an area of concentrated recreation use. Prohibiting shooting in those areas not only includes recreational shooting but hunting as well. The 450 foot prohibition is identical to the state laws that exist in every state I'm familiar with. All of these prohibitions are in place for public safety purposes and in some cases to preserve peace and quiet.

Some National Forests, such as the Angeles NF in southern California, prohibit all shooting with the exception of hunting in designated areas. These and other National Forests that are adjacent to large cities have concentrated recreation use over large areas of land.

A hunter should know these things and the types of land where hunting is allowed. A hunter should be interested in how wildlife habitat is managed and which agency is involved. It surprises me that you knew very little of this. Back when I hunted more I subscribed to Outdoor Life where each issue contains articles and editorials relative to public land and conservation issues.

Thank you for insulting my intelligence. I think the labeling of people and ideas into "left or right" or "liberal or conservative" is counter productive. It is a way of oversimplifying complex issues and does not lead to rational discussions that resolve issues or addresses them in ways that everyone has a say. It tends to result in polarization. When people are unwilling to research an issue or engage in meaningful conversation the demonizing of those who don't think the same way is a lot easier. The endless broadcasting of pundits who demonstrate these negative behaviors is pervasive, with many of the pundits going to extremes to be noticed. It is sad that these people have an audience.

This country was founded on liberal principles. If conservative ideas ruled we would all be serfs serving lords. Hmm, could this possibly be the impetus for the "Occupy" movement?

[com501]

Originally Posted by Exsmokey

This country was founded on liberal principles. If conservative ideas ruled we would all be serfs serving lords. Hmm, could this possibly be the impetus for the "Occupy" movement?

No, it isn't. Liberal principles are different now than what they were in 1780. The 'OWS' movement is nothing more than snotty privileged individuals who want something for nothing. Read their manifesto.

There is a different thread for that, here in the Tavern.

I am sorry you have drunk the KoolAid in Kalifornia. Good luck with that.

[KD6HRI]

My other hobby....

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...6/IMAG1018.jpg

[Exsmokey]

Originally Posted by KD6HRI

My other hobby....

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...6/IMAG1018.jpg

What make/model shotgun is that? Have you posted this on the pictures of you shack page?

[Exsmokey]

Originally Posted by com501

No, it isn't. Liberal principles are different now than what they were in 1780. The 'OWS' movement is nothing more than snotty privileged individuals who want something for nothing. Read their manifesto.

There is a different thread for that, here in the Tavern.

I am sorry you have drunk the KoolAid in Kalifornia. Good luck with that.

I have some observations relative to your reply:

I haven't had any of the "KoolAid in Kalifornia" because there is none. I've lived and worked in 3 other states and graduated from college in one of them. I enjoy this part of California, the eastern Sierra, and I will probably live in the area the rest of my life. I know how to objectively evaluate the characteristics of the places I've lived. My career involved working with people who have lived all over the U.S. and many who worked in the 3rd world as a result of their Peace Corps volunteer experience. I worked on ICS managed incidents in 8 other states, some fires, some other emergency situations and some non-emergency incidents. Large incidents have people from many walks of life, levels of education, careers and residencies. I talked to all these people about their observations of where they lived. There are pluses and minuses and tradeoffs no matter where you live. I'm not provincial about anywhere I've lived or thought of living. Most of the co-workers I've had have lived in states I haven't and have retired in other states. I keep in touch with some of them and we compare notes on where we live. If I drink any "KoolAid" it comes from all of those experiences. Federal natural resource employees, for the most part, love geography so they are a great source of information for places to live and visit.

I've lived in an area as close to being in a third world country as you can get inside the boundaries of the U.S. That area is remote, rural, small towns in New Mexico. While working there I was in the zone of influence of Texas recreation visitors.

If I had to move somewhere else in California it would be to Plumas or Modoc Counties. That was my view when I was in the U.S. Forest Service, contemplating the next transfer I was expected to make. I had the upper New England states in mind for a transfer, then somewhere in the Idaho, Montana, eastern Oregon region. The circumstances of life stopped my opportunity to transfer a couple more times after transferring 4 times in my career.

The "KoolAid" and "Kalifornia" phrases are overused and are stereotypes using broad sweeping generalizations that don't hold up to scrutiny. It is popular to take shots at California and Texas. Those shots are made by people who use simple observations and trite labels when making shallow evaluations of complex subjects and issues. They spread rumor and "urban legends." 'They make up and use derogatory phrases names for ideas and people they disagree with. They make fun of those people. They love the soundbite version rather than the extensive analysis version. They are usually not well educated and have very little knowledge of or very little experience in science. These can be taken as over generalizations and stereotypes as well, but I've watched Fox News, in particular Glen Beck, Ann Coulter, Lou Dobbs, Bill O'Rielly and Sean Hannity for substantial periods of time. I've also watched and listened to Rush Limbaugh frequently. If those people represent conservatives then my conclusions and generalizations are fairly accurate. My personal experience includes meeting conservative people who don't fit these stereotypes and a lot who do. I know many conservatives that dislike these pundit's views. I've spoken with many people with other views and sometimes an intelligent conversation ensues where we each learn something from each other. Most of the time a conversation is not possible due to the emotional, soundbite outbursts that result. I often have extensive knowledge and education of the topics these pundits speak of. For those I don't now and again I'm able to research those topics and find substantial amounts of information they don't include or misrepresent.

My career entailed speaking and dealing with broad perspectives on dozens of issues and every type of public land user group you can imagine in diverse venues: phone, office, large public meetings, the field and in court. I don't really belong in any of those groups, I'm in a no man's land along with most of my co-workers. I was treated with coolness by an environmental group where I made a presentation, but was treated with anger, rudeness, contempt and threats a couple of dozen times from so called conservative user groups, the trees are meant for cutting, every blade of grass must be eaten by livestock and I have a god given right to take whatever motorized technology device I own on every last acre on earth segment. This is an observation only, as I really didn't fit in with any of them. The latter group has ostracized me and my family in small towns and both my wife and I have been driven off the road twice by ranchers. Every once in a while ranchers would invite me in for "dinner" when I was in the area. They are like lawyers, you can sharply disagree, but then you go out for lunch together during court recesses.

You have no idea of who I am, what I've done or my views on a wide variety of issues. I'm conservative on many issues and liberal on many others. Most of these issues cannot, and should not be categorized in terms of right or left, conservative or liberal. You haven't the slightest idea of my education and working experience that lends perspective to various issues nor the research I've done on those I only had a surface knowledge of.


“Science is frequently affected by politics and public opinion, while politics and public opinion are rarely influenced by science.” Exsmokey

“The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom”. Isaac Asimov

"If we follow an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth principle then everyone in the world would be blind and toothless" Unknown

“The true conservative is the man who has a real concern for injustices and takes thought against the day of reckoning.” Franklin D. Roosevelt

“It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea.” Robert Anton Wilson or in this case since 1780.

“A conservative is a man who believes that nothing should be done for the first time.” Alfred E. Wiggam

“If not now, when?” Talmud

“Broad-minded is just another way of saying a fellow's too lazy to form an opinion.” Will Rogers

“A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel.” Robert Frost

“If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.” Isaac Asimov

And finally:

“Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.” Albert Einstein, (attributed)

I'm done with this line of discussion. It has nothing to do with my four firearms or the other self-defense items I have stationed around the house and cars. We have gone off on a tangent, something the Tavern tolerates and is known for. I get sucked into this too easily.

[com501]

Originally Posted by KD6HRI

My other hobby....

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...6/IMAG1018.jpg

Ahhh, Kalifornia. The land of ten round magazines....

Nice collection though. You have a fair start. Now all you need is a few Form 4's and some tax stamps....

[KD6HRI]

Originally Posted by Exsmokey

What make/model shotgun is that? Have you posted this on the pictures of you shack page?

The shotgun started as a Remington 870 Express, but after a little time and parts is now a Tactical version that suits my needs. Last mod is coming soon when I have an XS ghost ring sight set installed at my local gunsmiths shop. I have posted on the shack site as well, but I see that it has been moved. Thanks com501 for the extra reminder of the god foresaken state in which I live in and the observations of the neutered AR-15 mag. Some of the B.S. we have to tolerate, but hope to pull up tent stakes soon and head north......

[yotebuster]

why the gun is civilization.


Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that’s it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gangbanger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we’d be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger’s potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat–it has no validity when most of a mugger’s potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that’s the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there’s the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don’t constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that’s as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weightlifter. It simply wouldn’t work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn’t both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don’t do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I’m looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don’t carry it because I’m afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn’t limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation…and that’s why carrying a gun is a civilized.

Author unknowen

[gewecke]

I can't agree more! Very well stated.

"I not only have arms...I am armed."


73,
n9zas