Old Philadelphia Police UHF & Fire VHF frequencies ???

[phillydjdan]

Not sure if anyone remembers, but what was the old VHF frequency assignments for Philadelphia Fire and UHF frequency assignments for the Philadelphia Police before they went to the 800 MHz trunked system? Also, anyone happen to know what the specialty officers (narcotics, strike force, etc) did for communications before the trunked system? I know, I know, it's ancient history, but dig out those frequency books and blow the dust off 'em! lol

[ocguard]

Originally Posted by phillydjdan

Not sure if anyone remembers, but what was the old VHF frequency assignments for Philadelphia Fire and UHF frequency assignments for the Philadelphia Police before they went to the 800 MHz trunked system? Also, anyone happen to know what the specialty officers (narcotics, strike force, etc) did for communications before the trunked system? I know, I know, it's ancient history, but dig out those frequency books and blow the dust off 'em! lol

I was always interested too. Never got to hear Philly fire before the 800mhz days. If I recall correctly, there should've been the North Fire Band, Sound Fire Band, Medic Band, and Emergency/Rescue channel.

[ampulman]

As I recall, the frequencies were 453.xxx or thereabouts. Don't recall what the 'grouping' was (possibly by precinct), but there were quite a few channels in use.

There also were units operating as '150' units (15x.xxx mhz), most notably the Granny squad, now defunct. Couldn't say what the frequency was as I was monitoring with a tunable radio.

Had no problem listening to them, here in S. Jersey (Cherry Hill at that time).

Amp

[phillydjdan]

Yeah, it was 153 to 154ish and 453. I only remember that Far NE was 453.950 and J Band was 453.250.

[jeff]

154.235 was the original fire dispatch, became South Fire when they added 154.145 as North Fire. 153.95 was the Emergency Band, changed to South Medic. 170.15 (166.25) was the original Medic Band, changed to North Medic. I think 154.01 was the input to 154.145, and 153.89 was the input to 154.235. Fireground was 153.83. They were CSQ for the longest time, added 88.5 as the PL for the last few years. 154.65 was listed as Courts with an input of 155.625 all CSQ, I could hear Moorestown thru that repeater.

[soberbyker]

Originally Posted by ampulman

As I recall, the frequencies were 453.xxx or thereabouts. Don't recall what the 'grouping' was (possibly by precinct), but there were quite a few channels in use.

There also were units operating as '150' units (15x.xxx mhz), most notably the Granny squad, now defunct. Couldn't say what the frequency was as I was monitoring with a tunable radio.

Had no problem listening to them, here in S. Jersey (Cherry Hill at that time).

Amp

In Philly the normal patrol areas are called districts (not precincts) and back on the old 453 band they were paired up pretty much the same as they are now on the 800 trunked system. Since then a few districts have been combined into one, for example there is no longer a 4th (now part of the 3rd), 23rd (now part of the 22) or 92nd district (now mostly within the 16th).

I believe SEPTA took over a lot of the old 453 band frequencies. Somewhere, I have an old copy of Police Call that still has the old listings, if I happen across it I'll post it.

[jcardani]

Originally Posted by phillydjdan

Not sure if anyone remembers, but what was the old VHF frequency assignments for Philadelphia Fire and UHF frequency assignments for the Philadelphia Police before they went to the 800 MHz trunked system? Also, anyone happen to know what the specialty officers (narcotics, strike force, etc) did for communications before the trunked system? I know, I know, it's ancient history, but dig out those frequency books and blow the dust off 'em! lol

(This was a taken from the PhillyScanner Yahoo group that I posted several years ago)

I started listening to PPD freqs around the early 1970's when I was in
elementary school. I started when the KGF587 UHF freqs were active. There
was also a KEX220 system consisting of 2 VHF repeaters 154.65 and 155.655
plus a few simplex freqs.

As I remember, the original 70's channels were as follows (before Far
Northeast and 25 bands)

453.050R North Band (14, 35)
453.150R Central Band (6, 9)
453.200R Northcentral Band (22, 23)
453.250R T-Band (Traffic/Tow Squad)
453.300R East Band (24, 25, 26)
453.350R West Band (16, 19)
453.400R H-Band (Detectives)
453.500R Southwest Band (12, 18)
453.550R M-Band (Citywide #2)
453.600R U-Band (Phone Patch) - added late 70's or early 80's
453.650R South Band (1, 3, 4, 17)
453.800R Northwest Band (5, 39)
453.950R Northeast Band (2, 7, 15) note 8th district came later.

later on

H-Band 453.400R was changed to Far-northeast band (7, 8) leaving 2, 15 on
453.95

U-band 453.600R was changed to "25" band for 25th dist.


There were also 460 freqs assigned to KGF587:

460.150R Sheriff Band
460.250R "27" Band for DA Drug Task Force
453.350R DA Band
453.450R Conventional Hall

Finally 453.900 was originally used in the subways/concourses but was later
renamed Z-Simp band for car-car comms above ground.

460.625 was also put into place later. This was known as Common band and was
also simplex.


KGF587 had 4 main repeater sites back in the 70's

City Hall (Center City)
Harner and Ivans (Roxborough)
Harbison and Levick (NE Philly)
24th and Ritner (S. Phila)
plus: PAB (8th and Race) for the "U band" 453.600 channel (added later).

The KEX220 VHF system was setup like this:

154.650R (input 155.625) Citywide-1
155.655R (input 154.770) Citywide-2
154.890S F-1 simplex
155.250S F-2 simplex

2 repeater sites 1 at City Hall and other on Harner Street (Roxborough) .

I also remember the PFD channels (circa 1970's):

154.235R F-1 Dispatch
153.950R F-2 Emergency Band
153.830S F-3 Fireground
154.145S F-4 Chiefs Band
170.150R F-5 Rescue Band

It later became:

154.235R F-1 South Fire Band
153.950R F-2 North Medic Band
154.145R F-3 North Medic Band
153.830S F-4 Fireground (Chief/Company officers)
153.935S F-5 Fireground (WLO, WSC, FMO, Rescue 1)
154.965S F-6 Fireground (Subway/underground )
170.150R F-7 South Medic Band

PFD repeater sites were at City Hall, Roxborough, Belmont Water Works and
Rosevelt Blvd. water treatment plant.


Joe

[phillydjdan]

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Wow, Joe, great info there! Byker, I know a lot of the old 453 frequncies are still in use in the city for misc agencies (streets dept, sanitation, prisons), but not all of them. I'll have to lookup those licenses and frequencies and confirm if septa took any or if the city still maintains them all.

[soberbyker]

Originally Posted by phillydjdan

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Wow, Joe, great info there! Byker, I know a lot of the old 453 frequncies are still in use in the city for misc agencies (streets dept, sanitation, prisons), but not all of them. I'll have to lookup those licenses and frequencies and confirm if septa took any or if the city still maintains them all.

I remember reading here on RR they may be in use by SEPTA, here's one old thread that mentions 453 band: Septa

I did look up the 453 numbers on the Philly Scanner guide and they are still listed as being owned by the City of Philadelphia.

[phillydjdan]

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I know septa has some 12.5 khz spaced frequencies in the 453 range, but the info i have is that they are tactical channels for septa pd. I'll have to do some poking around and find out what former city frequencies they have and what they use em for. I also heard septa is trying to put a trunking system in service for police, but i have no idea where that rumor is at this point.

[chankel]

I seem to recall seeing something in an old (> 10 yrs old) Police Call with "Bank Robbery Units" operating on 2 39 Mhz range channels.

It surprises me that Philadelphia didn't keep 1-2 VHF frequencies as a backup system to dispatch FD and EMS units on in case of a catastrophic TRS failure. In my mind there should always be a backup. I think the city still has licenses for some of the old fire VHF frequencies but doesn't multicast on them AFAIK.

Oddly enough despite their current TRS and the buildout of a new one, they're still using that old 47 MHz HASTE system instead of having 2-way consults via radio with receiving hospitals.

[phillydjdan]

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The 800 mhz system has 2 layers of redundancy if i remember correctly. First the radios revert to an all-call channel, then if the trunking controller fails completely, the radios and repeaters switch to assigned frequencies in conventional mode. Basically they would have to share a single channel with a bunch of other users, but they wouldnt theoretically in the dark completely. Ive never seen any trunking system actually do it yet, so i dont know how the scanners would handle it. So, they should be able to dispatch fire and ems even if the system takes a dump, in one way or another. Plus they have the i-tac repeaters to fall back on also. I agree with you about the haste channel. Even the bucks county system has digital radios in the hospital ERs.

[jcardani]

Those 39 MHz channels were used for bank robbery receivers that were located in the Stakeout (now SWAT) unit vans. In the event of a bank robbery, data would be transmitted to the receivers located in the vans. If I remember correctly the receivers had lights which I imagine would indicate which bank was robbed.

[phillydjdan]

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Interesting! thanks joe

[captaincab]

the city does indeed still have licenses for the old uhf system for the pd and i believe also the vhf system for the fd i know for sure the old ppd system still has equipment stock piled in districts as an emergency backup system in case the wonderful craptastic trunked system goes down on a side note both the ppa and the city streets department were suppose to move to the trunked system and that has been delayed indefintley.