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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2013, 9:51 PM
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Indiana is able to function standalone. Connectivity back to the switch is the issue at the moment. . . .
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:19 AM
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Ok. The trunk system name has been changed to reference now that its not just a westmoreland p25 system.

On another note. Ive received a request to abbreviate the alpha display tag with the county number for id's. Example instead of "ARM EMS DISP" it would be 03 EMS DISP.

Any other suggestions?

Frank
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:27 AM
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I suggest 2-letter county codes, for example, WM for Westmoreland, AS for Armstrong, IN for Indiana, and SW for System-Wide
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2013, 12:26 PM
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I'm pretty sure you can add TG 509 as Armstrong County-Wide TAC-8.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2013, 1:23 AM
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What is Indiana's status? How far along are they? When will they come online? Testing? Any info would be appreciated.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2013, 7:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Pa View Post
What is Indiana's status? How far along are they? When will they come online? Testing? Any info would be appreciated.
See my note thats a few entries up. . . . The system is able to run/function standalone at the moment. They do not have connectivity back to the trunking switch. They are trying to resolve that issue. . . . It takes a while to get either fiber or microwave connectivity issues resolved. It's not like DSL or Cable modem where you put an order in on a monday and have service in a week or two. . . . . . .
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 8:15 AM
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Default Indiana county

is Indiana County active on this yet??
when are they coming online??
does anyone have any info??
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2013, 8:58 AM
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Default Control Channel trouble??

it seems the only control channels that my PRO-106 are hearing is 860.9375 and 859.9875 .
I have all control channels for all sites entered as same system, and have it set for P25 auto and Multi-System roam.
Am I doing something wrong??
this is both at home and at work.
work is Located near Harmar Twp. in Allegheny county, and home is in Connellsville
please help
Thanks,
Brian
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2013, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb3jqz View Post
it seems the only control channels that my PRO-106 are hearing is 860.9375 and 859.9875 .
I have all control channels for all sites entered as same system, and have it set for P25 auto and Multi-System roam.
Am I doing something wrong??
this is both at home and at work.
work is Located near Harmar Twp. in Allegheny county, and home is in Connellsville
please help
Thanks,
Brian
Though you have all the sites programmed, the scanner will only pick up sites within receiving range, in which case it's those two sites.

----

Now on the general discussion, I have received word elsewhere on the forums that the rest of Region 13 will be joining the system in the future. This includes Cambria, Somerset, Fayette, Green, Washington, Allegheny, Beaver, Butler, Lawrence, and Mercer counties. This information has not yet been confirmed, though I also heard Fayette's system should be joining ICORRS later this year.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2013, 6:31 PM
   
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Default New ICORRS Activity.

I'm in northern Indiana Co.
On Indiana Co ICORRS I have heard test transmissions on TGs:759,760,761.
This afternoon a conversation occurred on TG 759. This was carried out using the 859.4875 CC and voice
freqs 851.625 & 851.825 (those voice freqs are not on system chart).
What were they talking about you may ask? Aligning security cameras.

On Armstrong Co ICORRS TG 566 is active.
This afternoon heard conversation about PFA being served. Probably Armstrong Co Sheriff or Domestic Relations. (566 is not on TG list).
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2013, 9:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb3jqz View Post
it seems the only control channels that my PRO-106 are hearing is 860.9375 and 859.9875 .
I have all control channels for all sites entered as same system, and have it set for P25 auto and Multi-System roam.
Am I doing something wrong??
this is both at home and at work.
work is Located near Harmar Twp. in Allegheny county, and home is in Connellsville
please help
Thanks,
Brian
The control channels listed for the "Armstrong Zone" appear to be very difficult to receive if you're anywhere outside of Armstrong County itself. I'm only about 6-7 miles from the border, and even with an outside antenna I can't reliably decode it....the only way I can hear Armstrong radio traffic is if one of the talkgroups happen to be affiliating with a Westmoreland site.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2013, 10:43 PM
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I have confirmed, as of today, with the head of ACES that Allegheny will not be joining the ICORRS system. They have made a long-term commitment to UHF, and they are part of the fight to keep T-Band right now.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2013, 9:40 PM
   
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Default Major testing in Indiana Co. today

Hours of signal checking. At least 2 mobile units (apparently) driving around. Almost constantly calling out (grid)
reference numbers & "test 1,2,3" to a dispatcher. Everything being carefully logged. I guess they want a "real" proof of performance, not a computer model . Smart...but, this may take awhile. On TG 759.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2013, 10:07 PM
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Okay. I am speaking for all the admins here when I ask folks from the SW part of the state to refrain from sending angry submissions demanding that we change the alpha tags to show the numerical county designations as you would see on system radio screens for ICORRS.

The number one reason why it is not worth your time to do this is because any member can update alpha tags by clicking on the field. DB admins do not have exclusive control over this. I know there are some pages in the database where I have seen constant changing of alpha tags because people don't like the way the tags are and they want their scanner to say something specific.

DB admins have certain guidelines they are supposed to follow when adding new stuff or maintaining old stuff. Many pages don't quite fit the guidelines and they get updated as time permits. What any other member does to the alpha tags or the service tags (which can also be changed by anyone) is out of our control after a page is set up.

We had a member suggest that the county ID numbers as listed here: Pennsylvania County Codes should be used to ID all alpha tags since that is what system radios show. I am not opposed to doing that, although I do not think the county ID numbers are as widely known in the state as the submitter might think, especially to a casual listener just passing through. One question I have in this regard, though, do the Westmoreland County radios display a 65 before all talkgroups?

Frankly, I don't see anything wrong with using the first two letters of a county name to start off the alpha tags on this system. Even if this system builds out to every county in Region 13, there will be no duplication.

AL - Allegheny
AR - Armstrong
BE - Beaver
BU - Butler
CA - Cambria
FA - Fayette
GR - Greene
IN - Indiana
LA - Lawrence
ME - Mercer
SO - Somerset
WA - Washington
WE - Westmoreland
PI - Pittsburgh
IC - Intercounty

Since the system is not statewide, there would be no conflict between counties like Cambria and Cameron for naming.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benrussellpa View Post
The number one reason why it is not worth your time to do this is because any member can update alpha tags by clicking on the field. DB admins do not have exclusive control over this. I know there are some pages in the database where I have seen constant changing of alpha tags because people don't like the way the tags are and they want their scanner to say something specific.
Lindsay closed that AJAX loophole a while ago. Only admins can change alpha tags and function tags by double clicking the fields.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benrussellpa View Post
DB admins have certain guidelines they are supposed to follow when adding new stuff or maintaining old stuff.

We had a member suggest that the county ID numbers as listed here: Pennsylvania County Codes should be used to ID all alpha tags since that is what system radios show. I am not opposed to doing that, although I do not think the county ID numbers are as widely known in the state as the submitter might think, especially to a casual listener just passing through.
Indeed, there are guidelines in place to ensure database uniformity. One large aspect of the format used for alpha tags and descriptions is that they should make sense to an outsider, not just the locals.

Here are the guidelines that are in place with regard to alpha tags (I've highlighted some of the key points as applies to the complaints about the alpha tags for this system):

Quote:
Alpha tags are limited to 12 characters to ensure compatibility with older scanners that support only a 12-character alpha tag. Alpha tags shall be made as clear as possible given the space provided. Alpha tags shall generally indicate the agency and the channel number or usage to the extent that the information is known and can reasonably fit in 12 characters. Alpha tags shall use a mix of lower and upper case letters (the use of all capital letters shall be avoided). Alpha tags shall not necessarily be the alpha tag as shown on a radio transceiver programmed for a specific conventional or trunked system. Alpha tags shall be written to be useful to scanner users and furthermore they shall be clear to novice scanner users to the extent possible.

Alpha tags "stand alone" and are not a more specific classification under the category, subcategory and description hierarchy. The alpha tag itself shall only contain information that is also represented in the county/agency/system name, category, subcategory and/or description of the frequency or talkgroup.

If the frequency or talkgroup description is insufficient to provide enough information to create a unique alpha tag, then the frequency or talkgroup number shall be included as part of the alpha tag to ensure uniqueness.
Bottom line is that a two-letter county abbreviation is much easier for an outsider to understand than a two-number county code that most locals probably don't even know off the top of their heads. Ben's list is in full compliance with and in the spirit of the database policy.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:15 PM
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I did not realize that the alpha tags could no longer be changed by everyone. That caused some chaos when that was happening.

At any rate, I understand that the two digit number code eliminates any sense of confusion from two letter abbreviations on a statewide basis. But, which numbering scheme would you go with? PA uses 1-67 consecutive to ID counties and I am very familiar with those numbers since I work in state government. However, then you have the federal FIPS codes which run 001 thru 133 using the odd numbers in sequence for each county. There's always going to be somebody who is displeased with the way something is tagged. I often find myself editing alpha tags on my scanners because even I prefer something different than what the database has sometimes.

Honestly, if I get a bunch of input from people in the area saying they prefer 03 vs. AR for Armstrong, I would be happy to use just 03.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benrussellpa View Post
I did not realize that the alpha tags could no longer be changed by everyone. That caused some chaos when that was happening.
Indeed it did lol.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benrussellpa View Post
At any rate, I understand that the two digit number code eliminates any sense of confusion from two letter abbreviations on a statewide basis. But, which numbering scheme would you go with? PA uses 1-67 consecutive to ID counties and I am very familiar with those numbers since I work in state government. However, then you have the federal FIPS codes which run 001 thru 133 using the odd numbers in sequence for each county. There's always going to be somebody who is displeased with the way something is tagged. I often find myself editing alpha tags on my scanners because even I prefer something different than what the database has sometimes.
And therein lies the problem...there is the PA numbering system and the FIPS numbering system, which differ. Some may be familiar with one, while some are familiar with the other. There is some ambiguity there, whereas it's pretty clear that AR is short for Armstrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benrussellpa View Post
Honestly, if I get a bunch of input from people in the area saying they prefer 03 vs. AR for Armstrong, I would be happy to use just 03.
The problem with going by local consensus is that it butts up against our policy of making alpha tags as clear and descriptive as possible with just 12 characters. An outsider visiting the area from California or wherever isn't going to have a clue what 03 EMS Disp means, however AR EMS Disp is pretty clear if he knows he's in Armstrong County.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2013, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauffeur6 View Post
Bottom line is that a two-letter county abbreviation is much easier for an outsider to understand than a two-number county code that most locals probably don't even know off the top of their heads. Ben's list is in full compliance with and in the spirit of the database policy.
I understand that it's the policy that is being used to justify the arbitrary codes rather than the official codes. But, you have large trunk systems in OH and WV that are using the state codes, and those seem to be understood just fine. But for some reason PA's state codes are different even though each state is using consecutive two-digit numbers to identify their counties. That's the issue I have. If the two-letter abbreviations are the preferred norm, then when are the codes going to be changed for MARCS or WV? When I go to OH, I simply keep a list of codes or memorize those for the area I'm going into. It's never been confusing for me. It's really no different than memorizing the RR county codes. So, now you have the state code AND the RR code to memorize (and the FIPS code if you want to include that).

As for ICORRS, it was never thought the system would expand outside Westmoreland County. Now, it's regional, and could very well go statewide if it keeps being adopted by more counties. So, eventually you will have conflicts with the RR system due to duplication. I would think it would be better to follow the proven system used in OH and WV for uniformity of tags.

Regardless, I'm done with this. When a policy allows one thing in one area, but prohibits it in another, I have an issue with the policy. It's that simple. It has worked for OH and WV, and there is no reason it can't work for PA.

None of this should be taken personally by any of the DB admins.

Joe M.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2013, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post

As for ICORRS, it was never thought the system would expand outside Westmoreland County. Now, it's regional, and could very well go statewide if it keeps being adopted by more counties. So, eventually you will have conflicts with the RR system due to duplication. I would think it would be better to follow the proven system used in OH and WV for uniformity of tags.

Regardless, I'm done with this. When a policy allows one thing in one area, but prohibits it in another, I have an issue with the policy. It's that simple. It has worked for OH and WV, and there is no reason it can't work for PA.

None of this should be taken personally by any of the DB admins.

Joe M.
Joe,

I find it highly unlikely that the ICORRS system itself would ever go statewide. If anything, the next generation of PA-STARNET (which will eventually migrate over to a P25 platform) would be the likely statewide platform if there ever was one. But, I digress.

I have looked at both MARCS and the WV state systems and the admins there have not consistently used two digit county codes for everything there. Yes, the codes are used for some talkgroups.
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Old 07-31-2013, 7:45 AM
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I'm going to throw my random thoughts and $1.95 into the mix. . . .

On Channel Naming within ICORRS. . . .
First, each county CAN put whatever they want on the displays to make the channel names meaningful for their responders.

Second, on the back end in the controller (since we currently have 3 counties, and as soon as I have my connectivity back to Greensburg, 4 counties) the management side to keep everyones talkgroups identified so Fayette (me) doesn't accidentally screw up a talkgroup configuration for someone in Joe Mc's neck of the woods (Armstrong and/or Westmoreland-I think he covers radios in both counties)

It is also being encouraged/recommended that say I have WestCo channels in a Fayette Radio to have the 2 digit county identifier to identify them as WestCo channels.
The XTS2500/5000's with their 14 digit display really suck.
The XTL2500 mobiles with 2 line where I can have a 14 digit Zone name really doesn't require the county name in the channel tag.

Same goes for the APX Portables/Mobiles as I can have a full zone name show up on the display on the APX equipment.
So the more full featured radio a subscriber has, the less chance of seeing 26-FD DISP on the screen (meaning Faye Co Fire, Fire Dispatch)

I can understand both viewpoints. . . . As someone that uses the stuff daily, I have been using the county identifier of 26 for Fayette for going on 21 years now. (If anyone remembers the old voice id'ers on the old PEMA Repeaters- they used to identify in a woman's voice with in case of Fayette-- 3126 Fayette County where 31 was a number pulled from somewhere but I don't know where. . . . 26 was our county code, Fayette was our county name)

Perhaps a more standardized way for the DB to identify stuff is using the nationally recognized FIPS codes from the Census bureau. There is no dispute that 42051 is Fayette County, PA

MIRS Products: Maps

shows the standardization. used in NWS receivers, and many other places to uniquely identify Fayette, PA

Again just my random thoughts and ramblings.

Have a great one!
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