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Old 04-07-2010, 12:44 PM
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Default Cap and Trade: A License Required for your Home

Beginning 1 year after enactment of the Cap and Trade Act, you won't be able to sell your home unless you
retrofit it to comply with the energy and water efficiency standards of this Act. H.R. 2454, the "Cap & Trade"
bill passed by the House of Representatives, if also passed by the Senate, will be the largest tax increase
any of us has ever experienced.

* In effect, this bill prevents you from selling your home without the permission of the EPA administrator.
* To get this permission, you will have to have the energy efficiency of your home measured.
* Then the government will tell you what your new energy efficiency requirement is and you will be forced to make modifications
to your home under the retrofit provisions of this Act to comply with the new energy and water efficiency requirements.
* Then you will have to get your home measured again and get a license (called a "label" in the Act) that must be posted
on your property to show what your efficiency rating is; sort of like the Energy Star efficiency rating label on your refrigerator or air conditioner.
* If you don't get a high enough rating, you can't sell. And, the EPA administrator is authorized to raise the standards every year,
even above the automatic energy efficiency increases built into the Act.

Cap and Trade: A License Required for your Home - International Association of Certified Home Inspectors
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Old 04-07-2010, 1:14 PM
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Be responsible! Or you will be made to do so! You had your chance.
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Old 04-07-2010, 1:37 PM
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Its the same as when you sell a house it has to be up to code, electrical, plumbing and so forth. This is just another code that the person selling the house will have to comply with.
The tax increases are need thanks to King George, who robbed from the poor to pay the rich.
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Old 04-07-2010, 2:17 PM
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The evil regime (aka BHO/NP/HR/BF/CD et al) are cooking up every leftist mandate they can think of. Everything out of Rules For Radicals and so on. They are in bed with the enviromental extremists as well as every other fringe nut job blogger type of slack jawed drooling moron.

Hey - Hows that hope and change working out for you?
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Old 04-07-2010, 4:58 PM
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Originally Posted by redhelmet13 View Post
Hey - Hows that hope and change working out for you?
It's working out just great. Thanks, for asking =)

If you can't responsibly maintain your home then you will pay for it. It's just like when you drive negligently or fail to pass your inspection. If you don't maintain what you're responsible for, then you will eventually pay for it, whether it's through taxes, fixing up your home, or paying for that new roof. If you're going to own land and a home then you should be held to a higher standard. Don't harm my living space because you're too cheap to efficiently maintain your building.

If you fail to do so it will cost you anyhow. Why? Because if you fail to make your home efficient, you will end up paying more on your heating and electric bills. Either way you're going to pay. With the rising costs of energy resources, due to dwindling supply (the old supply and demand model), your bills will steadily increase year after year. Whether through penalty taxes or owing money to private industry. There is no penalty for making your home efficient. It will only clean up the environment, get the U.S. off it's heavy oil addiction, create more jobs in the energy sector, as well as the construction industry, and provide us with new economy that is no longer steeped in old and crooked money making schemes. So, basically the less harm you cause to the environment, the less it will cost you in the end. It's simple, you just need to accept that responsibility, and not perceive it as threat to your freedom. You got freedom when you bought that house. Did you really think the heavy costs were going to stop there? I didn't think so.

If you think you've never had to pay for your ownership, well think again. This bill is nothing new. There's already a law called the Clean Air Act. You do it frequently, when you get your car inspected for emissions. I don't hear all of you griping about that, because what would you do without your mobile freedom? You couldn't ever give that up. In fact while you took that loan out on that car, you probably thought you'd never have to pay for it anymore. Wrong! Now you pay insurance on it. I bet you love doing that every month. Oh, and how about those nice flat roads you drive on everyday? I bet you like being able to get from point A to B to make a living, so that you can pay your mortgage. Well those roads aren't free either, buddy. How about we take those taxes out of the equation for you? Drive on those roads!

You know it cracks me up when you people ***** about paying for things that you don't want to pay for, but yet you really do enjoy all the luxuries in your lives. You know what? Consider this! Let's get rid of taxes on everything. Let's not pay for the things that we all have through taxes. Then consider your ability to actually do the things you do everyday without the hassle of actually having to do the extra work. You know, and I know that if you took all of that away, we'd be a sorry excuse for a country. The U.S. would probably go third world without proper taxation. We'd just about be the worst place on the planet, but we're not, due to fair taxation.

I know what the real issue is here. You're mad because you pay for taxes, but you don't feel like you get enough in return. Well the government here is trying to give you that opportunity to do so, on your own, without having to wait for some half-assed Congressman or Senator to spend 3 years trying to represent your needs in Washington. With the new Cap and Trade bill in place, you are being given the opportunity to save yourself money through efficiency, tax breaks, and the security of knowing that your home won't put you in the poorhouse due to high rates of unnecessary energy consumption. Don't let big private companies push you around! That's what this is all about anyway. What's the matter you got too much invested in bad businesses, that haven't given a single thought to how there practices ignore the safety of efficient operation? Well I suggest you sell your shares, and reinvest in any alternatives you find out there. This way you can afford to pay for that tax hit, after you've decided not to make your home more efficient. Making money, and saving it is all about spending some, and taking risks.

This is a new era, whether you like it or not. It's time for change, because it's new, and will push private industry to develop new ideas, and new concepts for the markets that will help the U.S. grow back to it's firm standing of the world's innovator, home to the inventor, and begin to produce more than just big, dirty, old, and unwanted products. No more something for nothing! Consider John Deere, General Electric, Dow Chemical, and GM. They are all companies ready to embrace Cap and Trade policies, because they want to make productive progress in America, and not hold this country back any longer. But, without changing our lifestyles, these companies will not be able to thrive in the global markets if we refuse to accept that we need to live with more environmental consciousness. These are all "Made in the USA" companies, that will not just bring back money to the taxpayers, but also provide more jobs if they profit from innovation.

On a further note, if we make our homes efficient, we will reduce our dependence on foreign oil, and it will make the U.S. more self-sustaining. I'm sorry but there simply is not enough oil available domestically to keep us going for a long time. Even with offshore drilling, we would still need to conserve that resource as well. Sure it will cost us a bit more in the short-term, but over a brief long-term, energy efficiency will save us more money ten-fold. We've been burning coal for well over 100 years, and oil as an energy source has been around just as long. What America needs to start doing is slowing this aspect of our consumption down, or else we will deplete our resource significantly. If every U.S. household invested in a more efficient oil burner, or implemented an renewable resource for water heating, that would be billions of gallons or tons of non-renewable resources not consumed on a monthly basis. That means less money out of your pocket for taxes to sustain an ample flow of oil and coal imports, which are mainly subsidized by the government. It also is less money out of your pocket that goes to the private gas, coal or oil company every month. For U.S. homeowners it's not a lose situation at all.

And, just to wrap it all up, Cap and Trade, does not effectively work its way down directly to the consumer or individual citizen. It's aimed at "large-scale emitter[s]" over a long period of time. It will cost these private entities no more to make their productivity more efficient, than it would to maintain there usual cost to keep the business up and running. If the companies choose not to abide by the rules, then they will have to pay additionally for it. But, it is their choice not to maintain efficient production, therefore it was there choice to pay more. The trade aspect of this policy will generate large sums of revenue, then you and I as taxpayers will not have to pay directly out-of-pocket. It will be paid for by companies that fail to place a limit on their emissions. This will compel companies to invest in other forms of energy production, in order to make it cheaper to produce more energy at low consumption, instead of high amounts of consumption at high cost, doubling the cost for the individual consumer.
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Old 04-07-2010, 5:48 PM
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I compared all the horrible things your link declares that this bill will do, with text from the actual bill, and a summary posted on govtrack.us, and couldn't find where any of the provisions cited do what NACHI says it does. It's a complex bill, but I just couldn't find ANYWHERE that it says you can't sell your home until it's retrofitted.

Could you provide better source material than the National Association of Certified Home Inspectors?
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Old 04-07-2010, 5:52 PM
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Originally Posted by zz0468 View Post
I compared all the horrible things your link declares that this bill will do, with text from the actual bill, and a summary posted on govtrack.us, and couldn't find where any of the provisions cited do what NACHI says it does. It's a complex bill, but I just couldn't find ANYWHERE that it says you can't sell your home until it's retrofitted.
Yeah I know, I read the entire bill this afternoon, and found nothing in the actual bill that stated that you can't sell your home without compliance. More BS from the incorrect right-wingers. Even the links to the section on that site are all broken. I mean really, if you're going to cite something verbatim, one, actually try to find the words in the document, and two, make sure there is proper accessibility to the document. Amateurs.
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Old 04-07-2010, 6:15 PM
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Yeah I know, I read the entire bill this afternoon, and found nothing in the actual bill that stated that you can't sell your home without compliance.
In comparison to what the NACHI site says it does, it actually seems rather innocuous. A provision like that in a real bill would cause an avalanche of additional foreclosures as people who can't afford to do the retrofits, but have to move for whatever reason, would just walk away.

I wish the people who post these things here would realize that unless you're referencing the ACTUAL DOCUMENT from the ACTUAL SOURCE, you're most likely getting the interpretation of some pseudo-political organization's spin... and that can be quite far removed from reality.

Again, I'd like to see a reference taken from the actual bill that says you have to have EPA approval to sell your home.
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Old 04-07-2010, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by zz0468 View Post
I wish the people who post these things here would realize that unless you're referencing the ACTUAL DOCUMENT from the ACTUAL SOURCE,
you're most likely getting the interpretation of some pseudo-political organization's spin...
and that can be quite far removed from reality.
Mea culpa.
Things like that NEVER happen here at the RR Politics forum.

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Again, I'd like to see a reference taken from the actual bill that says you have to have EPA approval to sell your home.
He doesn't say the bill requires EPA approval to sell your home.
He says, in effect, this bill prevents you from selling your home without
the permission of the EPA administrator.
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Old 04-07-2010, 11:37 PM
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Mea culpa.
Things like that NEVER happen here at the RR Politics forum.
So, then, is the point of posting these things just to get people worked up? It's ok, if that's the case, but some of these guys read stuff like that, take it as gospel, and then go off like a roman candle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepdx View Post
He doesn't say the bill requires EPA approval to sell your home.
He says, in effect, this bill prevents you from selling your home without
the permission of the EPA administrator.
Either way, it doesn't appear to actually be in the bill, at least so far as I could tell. I read the summary of it, and scanned the actual bill. There's nothing I saw that even implies such a thing. Organizations like NACHI always have their own political agenda, and some play fast and loose with the facts. I'd hardly consider any of them to be a bastion of neutral journalism.

This sort of thing is one of the biggest turn-offs for me to both major political parties. Whoever the sour-loser du jour is, makes up have truths, posts them on the internet in forums, and web sites, and people suck it up like it's the truth. But most of the time it's not.
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Old 04-08-2010, 9:13 AM
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Originally Posted by zz0468 View Post
In comparison to what the NACHI site says it does, it actually seems rather innocuous. A provision like that in a real bill would cause an avalanche of additional foreclosures as people who can't afford to do the retrofits, but have to move for whatever reason, would just walk away.
I agree. Putting out statements like that would scare a lot of people, especially nowadays, out of the housing market, which in turn, is something our economy doesn't need right now. What is needed is for people to understand what the real intent of this policy is, and begin to make sound investments. All that aside, the bill presents a lot of language addressing requirements for nonresidential and new construction structures, and not a lot of emphasis is on residential ones, but they are not excluded entirely. I don't really see anything in the bill's text that really goes after individual homeowners.

I don't think that EPA will ever have direct say over something like the sale of a private home. That is something that will be handed down to local governments, due to Federal requirements, and they will be implemented through additional building codes. What would be interesting is instead of penalizing a homeowner for non-compliance, that the homes value be readjusted based on whether or not it meets new energy efficiency requirements. Basically, if your home is a certified efficient one, it will be worth more than one that isn't, but there would be no restriction at all on whether or not you could sell.
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Old 04-08-2010, 9:41 AM
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It's working out just great. Thanks, for asking =)


And, just to wrap it all up, Cap and Trade, does not effectively work its way down directly to the consumer or individual citizen. It's aimed at "large-scale emitter[s]" over a long period of time. It will cost these private entities no more to make their productivity more efficient, than it would to maintain there usual cost to keep the business up and running. If the companies choose not to abide by the rules, then they will have to pay additionally for it. But, it is their choice not to maintain efficient production, therefore it was there choice to pay more. The trade aspect of this policy will generate large sums of revenue, then you and I as taxpayers will not have to pay directly out-of-pocket. It will be paid for by companies that fail to place a limit on their emissions. This will compel companies to invest in other forms of energy production, in order to make it cheaper to produce more energy at low consumption, instead of high amounts of consumption at high cost, doubling the cost for the individual consumer.
What a load of bull. You Marxists make me laugh. All cap and trade is going to do is drive what companies are left in this country right out of this country you fool! Maybe thats what you want because you hate capitalism.You and that anti American fat greasy pig Micheal Moore.Hmmmm...I bet he's the one you turn to most for inspiration right? Anita Dunn has Mao to look up to and you have Moore. I guess what the both of you really want in this country is Moore Mao...hahahaha.Why don't you go catch a Van Jones seminar or something.
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Old 04-08-2010, 9:55 AM
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I.

I don't think that EPA will ever have direct say over something like the sale of a private home. That is something that will be handed down to local governments, due to Federal requirements, and they will be implemented through additional building codes. What would be interesting is instead of penalizing a homeowner for non-compliance, that the homes value be readjusted based on whether or not it meets new energy efficiency requirements. Basically, if your home is a certified efficient one, it will be worth more than one that isn't, but there would be no restriction at all on whether or not you could sell.
Why not. Is it not the IRS who will be enforcing the rules under the new "unconstitutional" heath care bill? I could see the EPA being placed in a similar roll.
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:14 AM
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It's working out just great. Thanks, for asking =)

If you can't responsibly maintain your home then you will pay for it. It's just like when you drive negligently or fail to pass your inspection. If you don't maintain what you're responsible for, then you will eventually pay for it, whether it's through taxes, fixing up your home, or paying for that new roof. If you're going to own land and a home then you should be held to a higher standard. Don't harm my living space because you're too cheap to efficiently maintain your building.
You just love big government control over your life don't you? I bet you salivate over paying more taxes! Oh please government please take more control over our lives. We can not take care of our selves we need the government to tell us how we must live. They will control what we can eat,drink,smoke,drive and now what kind of house we should live in. Boy you would have hated Thomas Jefferson back in the day.Yes he believed in liberty and as little government as possible almost anarchy.You know... you would love it in China.You should visit sometime. Maybe even consider relocating.
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:25 AM
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Be responsible! Or you will be made to do so! You had your chance.
Oooo Scary.....What will they do send the gestapo out to gather us into rail cars.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:19 AM
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Yep to "re-education" or should I say brainwashing camps (Gulag's).
What can you do... there are folks who cant let go of the apron strings... Mommy/daddy (Govt) take care of me syndrome. This is what they are teaching in public schools and most public universities these days. Be dependant not self sufficient. No wonder we have these idiots in charge.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:20 AM
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The easiest way to fry your brain is to connect it to moonbattery. The trouble with Chicken Little is he's haunted by the ghost of Harlan Sanders. One may say he's been buffaloed but without Buffalo wings the beast cannot fly.........

"What can you do... there are folks who cant let go of the apron strings... Mommy/daddy (Govt) take care of me syndrome. This is what they are teaching in public schools and most public universities these days. Be dependent not self sufficient."
I said that about some of the posts around here and got banned for telling the truth. Careful what you post or you too may end up spending a month in the RR Gulag.

"No wonder we have these idiots in charge."
Sorry to disagree but those in charge were educated long before the dumbing down plan went into effect. That's why they're in charge and you're not while the younger generation are rapidly becoming what Karl Marx referred to as "useful idiots". Now please don't go on confusing Socialism with Communism when a bit of self education is the only cure for brainwashing of the ignorant masses.

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Old 04-08-2010, 11:48 AM
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Its the same as when you sell a house it has to be up to code, electrical, plumbing and so forth. This is just another code that the person selling the house will have to comply with.
The tax increases are need thanks to King George, who robbed from the poor to pay the rich.
I bet you think the Vietnam war was Bush's fault, too.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:19 PM
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>Here is something to help make Obama's speeches more interesting. Just print out this page, distribute it to your friends, and go listen...
>
>
>Rules for BS Bingo
>
>1. Before Barrack Obama's next televised speech, prepare your "BS Bingo" card by drawing a square
>
>(I find that 5" x 5" is a good size -- and dividing it into columns --five across and five down.
>
>That will give you 25 1-inch blocks.)
>
>2. Write one of the following words/phrases in each block:
>
>• Restored our reputation
>• Strategic fit
>• Let me be clear
>• Make no mistake
>• Back from the brink
>• Signs of recovery
>• Out of the loop
>• Benchmark
>• Job creation
>• Fiscal restraint
>• Win-win
>• Affordable health care
>• Previous Administration
>• Greed on Wall Street
>• At the end of the day
>• Empower (or empowerment)
>• Touch base
>• Mindset
>• Corporate greed
>• Ballpark
>• Game plan
>• Leverage
>• Inherited as in "I inherited this mess”
>• Relief for working families
>
>3. Check off the appropriate block when you hear one of those words/phrases.
>
>
>4. When you get five blocks horizontally, vertically, or diagonally, stand up and shout
>
>"BULLSH*T
>
>
>Testimonials from past satisfied "BS Bingo" players:
>
>"I had been listening to the speech for only five minutes when I won." - Jack W., Boston
>
>"My attention span during speeches has improved dramatically." - David D., Florida
>
>"What a gas! Speeches will never be the same for me after my first win." - Bill R., New York City
>
>“The atmosphere was tense in the last speech as 14 of us waited for the fifth box." - Ben G., Denver
>
>"The speaker was stunned as eight of us screamed "BULLSH*T!" for the third time in two hours." - Harry A, Chantilly
>
>"This is the most fun I have ever had with my pants up!" - Robert H. Portland
>
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Old 04-08-2010, 1:26 PM
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What a load of bull. You Marxists make me laugh. All cap and trade is going to do is drive what companies are left in this country right out of this country you fool...
You're actually hurting your cause. Rather than call people names and regurgitate tired right wing dogmatic pseudo-profundities, why don't you read the bill, and point out to us specifically what it is about it that scares you so. The OP posted a link claiming all sorts of horrible things would happen. I read the bill's summary, and scanned through the bill itself, and I found no such things. Could it be that you're ranting about something that doesn't exist?
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