Ahmadinejad's 9/11 Rant

[VE5JL]

Originally Posted by zz0468

Certainly. I'd be happy to.

Aviation Photo: Boeing 757-200 Wingtip condensation | Patrick's Aviation

I don't know if you're trying to be funny but the title of your photo should have been a clue.

Look up Bernoulli's theory of flight for an explanation on condensation from wings. To paraphrase it when air travel faster over the top of the wing (full of fuel) it cools and condensation is formed, that is what the photos is showing. What we see on video (only 1 view of 30+cameras ) is the smoke emitting from a cruise missile.

http://www.andrewerickson.com/wp-con...ile_Xinhua.jpg

[VE5JL]

Originally Posted by N1RGR

That does not prove anything as far as any conspiracy theroy (SIC) is concerned.

It does, it proves that what hit the building wasn't a 757.

Originally Posted by N1RGR

Remember the 757 had just struck lamp posts on the highway seconds before it entered the camera's field of view. The smoke was likely a result from that impact.

I don't like to speculate. I'm a pilot, a pragmatist, a student of science, reason and logic. I leave all emotions out of the equation. Lets look at the data from the FDR.

Earlier a link was placed to Pilots for 9/11 Truth. You should take some time to go through the data on the site they received provided by the NTSB from the Flight Data Recorder information of flight 77.

American 77 (Pentagon) @ pilotsfor911truth.org

To paraphrase what is said the data supplied from the NTSB supposedly from flight 77 indicates that the AC was 480 above sea level (+- 75 feet) making the light poles 440 tall.

So, now that we know this the smoke 'emitting' (not rolling off the wings) from whatever hit the pentagon was not from a 757 damaged from hitting light poles 440 feet tall.

Originally Posted by N1RGR

Now can we put this thread back to bed?

Could you image what America would be like if the Founding Fathers just wanted to put the thought of independence to bed? You’d all be drinking tea, eating crumpets, have no guns, or freedom of speech.

[rdale]

Originally Posted by VE5JL

[Could you image what America would be like if the Founding Fathers just wanted to put the thought of independence to bed? You’d all be drinking tea, eating crumpets, have no guns, or freedom of speech.
[/FONT]

Instead we are in a country full of paranoid people with whacked out theories that can't enjoy life because of the black helicopters overhead. And a Facebook forum they can spread their disease on...

[VE5JL]

Originally Posted by rdale

Instead we are in a country full of paranoid people with whacked out theories that can't enjoy life because of the black helicopters overhead. And a Facebook forum they can spread their disease on...

You should look up cognitive dissonance. That about sums it up.

I never stated any "theories" just the factual data from the NTSB. Take it for what it's worth. The bottom line is the physical scientific evidence shows that a man who couldn't fly a Cessna (I can) flew a Boeing 757 at a speed and in an impossible turn that seasoned qualified 757 pilots couldn't do.

However, when Baxter and fellow instructor Ben Conner took the slender, soft-spoken Hanjour on three test runs during the second week of August, they found he had trouble controlling and landing the single-engine Cessna 172. Even though Hanjour showed a federal pilot's license and a log book cataloging 600 hours of flying experience, chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard declined to rent him a plane without more lessons.

If for the sake of argument everything we are told about 9/11 is true, why was there no accountability? How does someone fly into the worlds most protected airspace unmolested? Who was fired over this incompetence? Who went to jail for criminal negligence?

IF it is all true heads should have rolled. They didn't, only the innocent lives of what a million or so who have died since 9/11? I had a friend who died in Afghanistan and for what?

[mike4164]

Originally Posted by Michael-SATX

I have no issues what so ever with the validity of the moon landings being real !
Besides there are both the NASA LRO and the JAXA orbiting probes that have
very powerful cameras that have taken some high resolution photographs of the Apollo 11
and other Apollo landing sites right down to disgarded astronaut gear and even their footprints.

Next, concerning all your continued denial of the 9/11 events, trying asking yourself and others
this one question: "What was the additional heat source present in the WTC1 WTC2 and WTC7 ?"

Jet-A fuel and office fires are NOT going to turn steal to liquid and pulverize concrete material.
The WTC elevator shafts that were being quote un quote "refurnished" by the Turner Company
that was headquartered in WTC7 placed the Nano-Thermite material in the elevator shafts
that were ajacent to the buildings core columns. This project had crazy hours that had workers
there from 3am in the morning well after the cleaning crews had left and this work went on for months
giving them lots of time to rig the buildings well in advance. Oh and security measures you ask ?
Glad you ask ... it was provided by Securacom Stratesec, Inc. who's contract expired on Sept 10, 2001.
On the morning of Sept 11, none other that Marvin Bush ( George Bush's little brother) was the head
of the WTC security and came in that morning to hand over his keys to the new person in charge
and was riding away in the sub-way when the destruction had begun. How strange is that you guys ?
Also, not to be outdone by this fact, it's also true that from 1999 to January of 2002 (Marvin and George W.'s cousin)
Wirt Walker III was the company's CEO of Securacom Stratesec, Inc. Things that make you go Hmm ?

Once this incindiary material was ignited those buildings did not have a chance in the world.
The first responders saw molten metal flowing like lava so ask yourselves about those temperatures.
The ground zero fires burned over 3 months until Dec 19th. NASA's satelite took surface readings 5 days later
and were reading still temperatures in excess of 1535+ F degrees. Try that with jet fuel black smoke fires that
were starved for Oxgen and drenched with water for 5 days. I wish the organizers of the 10th anniversay of 9/11/01
had let the FDNY talk that day. Many FDNY guys told of explosions. Nano-thermite residue was all over the G-Zero.

In direct violation of federal law regarding crime scene protocol, the WTC debris pile was virtually locked down and
illegally cleared of all pertinent evidence. No FEMA, industry experts, fire/arson investigators, nor any structural engineers
were allowed to gather evidence for later laboratory investigation. They were given limited access to walk around segments
of ground zero, to observe and take notes on the debris pile. But to suggest that this cursory review was sufficient examination
to comprehensively detail the reason for the Towers' collapse, or to lucidly comment on perhaps the greatest crime in our nation's
history, is scientifically absurd. Also, 2 of the 9/11 Comission members resigned over not being allowed to do a proper investigation.

The North Tower WTC1 came down at free fall speed ( zero resistance ) of just 10.2 seconds after just 46 minutes after impact.Yet back
back on Feb 13, 1975 a fire raged over 3 hours that started on the 11th floor and caused 2M in damage and no damage to the basic structure.

So, this was a very serious fire which spread over some 65 per cent of the eleventh floor (the core plus half the office area) in the very same building that supposedly "collapsed" on 9/11 due to a similar, or lesser, fire. This fire also spread to a number of other floors. And although it lasted over 3 hours, it caused no serious structural damage and trusses survived the fires without replacement and supported the building for many, many more years after the fires were put out.

It should be emphasized that the North Tower suffered no serious structural damage from this fire. In particular, no trusses needed to be replaced

That the 1975 fire was more intense than the 9/11 fires is evident from the fact that it caused the 11th floor east side windows to break and flames could be seen pouring from these broken windows. This indicates a temperature greater than 700°C. In the 9/11 fires the windows were not broken by the heat (only by the aircraft impact) indicating a temperature below 700°C.

So now you know that the WTC towers were well designed and quite capable of surviving a serious fire. I repeat that this was a very hot fire that burnt through the open-plan office area of the eleventh floor and spread up and down the central core area for many floors. This was a serious fire.

Much was learned from the 1975 WTC fire. In particular, the fact that the fire had not been contained to a single floor but spread to many floors, caused much concern. The points of entry of the fire to other floors were identified and the floors of each building were modified to make sure that this would never happen again. For some strange reason, the modifications failed to perform on September 11, 2001 and again the fires spread from floor to floor.

9/11 is a highly emotional subject. And people react to it in a highly emotional way. If all we have read and/or seen about September 11 are the images fed to us by the mass-media, and all we know about the story that those images tell is the framing of the events offered by the U.S. Government, then it is perhaps reasonable to think that 19 Arabs, under the direction of a crazed lunatic in a cave in the Middle East, used box cutters and guile to thwart a multi-trillion dollar defense apparatus. But any thorough consideration and investigation into the hard facts of 9/11 will unearth evidence that makes the 19 Arab hijacker narrative a wholly unreasonable consideration. But even so, this highly emotional subject proves difficult to discuss rationally and seriously. There seems to be some kind of emotional investment we have in believing what we have been told by our 'leaders', by the people in positions of authority over us. Or, perhaps, we do not have the emotional fortitude to bear the implications of being lied to and duped so easily and horrifically.

Yep, this thread is revived alright !!!! sooo ... Bring It !!!

Michael, I was there on 9/11. Alot of what you state is INCORRECT!!!! #1 there was no molten steel dripping,The steel beams were collapsing. If you know anything about fire science,which it seems you do not, JET A fuel burns at more that 3,000 degrees,also steel collapses when the temp from heat gets to 1,200 degrees, you do NOT need direct flame contact for steel to get hot enough to collapse!!!!!!!! Also the collapse was not caused by heat alone,the collapse was also caused by the structural integrity being compromised from the planes going into them!!!!!! #2 The investigators were allowed in there for an investigation well before any debris was taken away,Their investigation started 12 hours after the 1st plane struck, I know this as a FACT as I saw it with my own eyes,#3 FEMA had an office in #2 WTC as well as the FBI, ATF,Secret Service and several other federal agencies. #4 there was no construction going on at 7WTC as I was involved in evacuating that building and was trapped in it for 3 hours!!!!!!! The reason the WTC collapsed was because when it was built it was built using whats called balloon construction. I know this as fact because my friends father was one of the original architects of the WTC and my friend still had the blueprints for me to see. The 1975 fire you are referring to was in a supply closet on the 11th floor and was contained to that large closet. It was nowhere close to even getting hot enough to collapse any structure. A response to the WTC is an automatic 2nd alarm to start and has been since it was opened,any alarms transmitted after that are usually for relief as is protocol for FDNY at such large compounds.At 7WTC the building burned because the outside engine of the 2nd jet went thru the 1st building and then thru 7WTC, causing several fires from office furniture and rugs,not construction materials or anything else,if you watch the video you will see it as a flame like object that comes thru the 1st building, it landed on the street after it went thru 7WTC,this is 1st hand facts seen from my own eyes!!! Also, if they weren't allowed to investigate how would they know there was NANO-THERMITE at the scene???NANO-THERMITE is NOT available for use in NYC as it is against NYC construction codes and LAW!!!!!!!! You just contradicted yourself and the article you quoted which has been proven to be false writing by the authors!!!!!! So unless you were there and saw anything you claim personally,SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!!!! I WAS THERE,YOU WERE NOT!!!!!!!!! 1 other fact,on day 1 we id'd 38 different chemicals and hazardous materials at the site thru several different methods that the EPA lied about!!!!!!!!!!! ALSO,STOP WITH THE BS CONSPIRACY THEORIES!!!!! There was video of the terrorists getting on the planes at the airports and those videos were released by the AIRLINES,not the Gov't. I really am sick of the BS about 9/11, if you were NOT there stop talking like you were because you make asses of yourselves!!!! I WAS THERE AND I LIVED THRU IT AND HAVE TO LIVE IT EVERYDAY OF MY LIFE BECAUSE OF ASSES LIKE YOU!!!!! I am sick from it and on meds to help me breath from it so SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY AND END IT!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike
FDNY/EMS
HAZ-TAC

[rafdav]

There's been test done to show jet fuel will cause steel/iron to deform and thus the colapse of the TWC buildings. So many people who just want to believe in conspiracy, it's sickening.

[zz0468]

Originally Posted by VE5JL

I don't know if you're trying to be funny but...

Well, as a matter of fact, I was.

Originally Posted by VE5JL

...the title of your photo should have been a clue.

Indeed. Which is exactly why I selected that photo. You asked for someone to show you a picture of a 757 emitting a streak of white smoke. I did just that. Ok, smoke, condensation. Whatever. When trying to counter absurdest theories such as yours, a little poetic license with semantics is allowed.

Originally Posted by VE5JL

Look up Bernoulli's theory of flight for an explanation on condensation from wings. To paraphrase it...

Save it. I have my pilots license. You've missed my point entirely. Just because you think you see a streak of white smoke does not mean that it WASN'T a 757.

What annoys me most about people like you is that there were 4 plane loads of people that ended up dead, and all the crack pots and whack jobs out there are trivializing the horrors of the day by attempting to make it into something that it is not.

It's incomprehensible to me how it's more believable that the U.S. could intentionally kill 3000 of it's own people, than the possibility that a well organized and well funded terrorist group that actually hates us could, and would, do such a thing? What the hell are you people thinking? What the hell is wrong with your brain that such idiotic ideas make sense? Why the hell am I even bothering with you? You're not worth the time and trouble.

[VE5JL]

Originally Posted by mike4164

Michael, I was there on 9/11. Alot of what you state is INCORRECT!!!! #1 there was no molten steel dripping,The steel beams were collapsing. If you know anything about fire science,which it seems you do not, JET A fuel burns at more that 3,000 degrees,also steel collapses when the temp from heat gets to 1,200 degrees, you do NOT need direct flame contact for steel to get hot enough to collapse!!!!!!!! Also the collapse was not caused by heat alone,the collapse was also caused by the structural integrity being compromised from the planes going into them!!!!!! #2 The investigators were allowed in there for an investigation well before any debris was taken away,Their investigation started 12 hours after the 1st plane struck, I know this as a FACT as I saw it with my own eyes,#3 FEMA had an office in #2 WTC as well as the FBI, ATF,Secret Service and several other federal agencies. #4 there was no construction going on at 7WTC as I was involved in evacuating that building and was trapped in it for 3 hours!!!!!!! The reason the WTC collapsed was because when it was built it was built using whats called balloon construction. I know this as fact because my friends father was one of the original architects of the WTC and my friend still had the blueprints for me to see. The 1975 fire you are referring to was in a supply closet on the 11th floor and was contained to that large closet. It was nowhere close to even getting hot enough to collapse any structure. A response to the WTC is an automatic 2nd alarm to start and has been since it was opened,any alarms transmitted after that are usually for relief as is protocol for FDNY at such large compounds.At 7WTC the building burned because the outside engine of the 2nd jet went thru the 1st building and then thru 7WTC, causing several fires from office furniture and rugs,not construction materials or anything else,if you watch the video you will see it as a flame like object that comes thru the 1st building, it landed on the street after it went thru 7WTC,this is 1st hand facts seen from my own eyes!!! Also, if they weren't allowed to investigate how would they know there was NANO-THERMITE at the scene???NANO-THERMITE is NOT available for use in NYC as it is against NYC construction codes and LAW!!!!!!!! You just contradicted yourself and the article you quoted which has been proven to be false writing by the authors!!!!!! So unless you were there and saw anything you claim personally,SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!!!! I WAS THERE,YOU WERE NOT!!!!!!!!! 1 other fact,on day 1 we id'd 38 different chemicals and hazardous materials at the site thru several different methods that the EPA lied about!!!!!!!!!!! ALSO,STOP WITH THE BS CONSPIRACY THEORIES!!!!! There was video of the terrorists getting on the planes at the airports and those videos were released by the AIRLINES,not the Gov't. I really am sick of the BS about 9/11, if you were NOT there stop talking like you were because you make asses of yourselves!!!! I WAS THERE AND I LIVED THRU IT AND HAVE TO LIVE IT EVERYDAY OF MY LIFE BECAUSE OF ASSES LIKE YOU!!!!! I am sick from it and on meds to help me breath from it so SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY AND END IT!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike
FDNY/EMS
HAZ-TAC

Here is a perfect example of how emotions overtake logic.

With all due respect Michael just because you were there doesn’t make you an expert or correct on your emotional assertions. Keep it in mind that most of the survivors of the Titanic swore the ship went down whole. They were there, and they were wrong.

Michael, I was there on 9/11. Alot of what you state is INCORRECT!!!! #1 there was no molten steel dripping,

Wrong

WTC2 South Tower on 9/11 Molten Metal North-East Corner - YouTube

SNIP…Also the collapse was not caused by heat alone, the collapse was also caused by the structural integrity being compromised from the planes going into them!!!!!!

If this is the case the building would not have followed the path of most resistance. (Straight down) Watch these clips of the North Tower. See the antenna head in one direction and the mass heads straight down? IF the official story is correct, the top section should have slid off the undamaged section following the path of LEAST resistance. What you see is the top section falling into the path of MOST resistance.

WTC North Tower collapse compilation - YouTube

#2 The investigators were allowed in there for an investigation well before any debris was taken away, Their investigation started 12 hours after the 1st plane struck, I know this as a FACT as I saw it with my own eyes,

Who was let in FEMA? I think you are incorrect here again. Tom Kennedy of FEMA started they arrived Monday night. J

Fema Rescuer talking about 9/11 - YouTube

SNIP… #4 there was no construction going on at 7WTC as I was involved in evacuating that building and was trapped in it for 3 hours!!!!!!!

Why were you trapped in WTC7? From the explosions in the building?

Berry Jennings (now deceased Hmmm….) was in WTC7 and said there were several explosion in the building. (He was NEVER called to testify infront of the 9/11 comission)

Barry Jennings UNCUT Interview, Bombs In WTC7, Explosions In Lobby - 9/11 Exposed - YouTube

I’m glad you made it out before the owner Larry Silverstein made the call it ‘pull it’ or bring WTC7 down.

Larry Silverstein admits WTC7 was pulled down on 9/11 - YouTube

But hey the BBC had a heads up about the collapse of building 7 and said so 20 minutes before it collapsed.

BBC Reported Building 7 Collapse 20 Minutes Before It Fell - YouTube

Never mind the fact the WTC7 is the only steel structure building in the history of construction to collapse because of office fires. Those fires NOT fed by diesel fuel in the building. Oh, what ‘conspiracy nut job wack-o said that? None other then the head of NIST.

WTC Disaster Study

The reason the WTC collapsed was because when it was built it was built using whats called balloon construction. I know this as fact because my friends father was one of the original architects of the WTC and my friend still had the blueprints for me to see.

Perhaps he can explain why with the ‘pancake’ theory being the pervasive one that the 47 core columns simultaneously collapsed as well? What caused this?

At 7WTC the building burned because the outside engine of the 2nd jet went thru the 1st building and then thru 7WTC, causing several fires from office furniture and rugs,not construction materials or anything else,if you watch the video you will see it as a flame like object that comes thru the 1st building, it landed on the street after it went thru 7WTC,this is 1st hand facts seen from my own eyes!!!

Are you saying on the record that you seen this happen with your own eyes???

I think you are confused. You may be speaking about the engine that passed through the south tower.

9-11 Research: Engine Remains at Ground Zero

I did a search and there isn’t s single source that says an engine when through the south building, then through WTC7 and then to the ground. Please quote any secondary or tertiary source.

Also, if they weren't allowed to investigate how would they know there was NANO-THERMITE at the scene???NANO-THERMITE is NOT available for use in NYC as it is against NYC construction codes and LAW!!!!!!!!

They know there was nano-thermite because it was found in the dust by a 3rd party that handed it over to Steven Jones.

Dr. Steven Jones - Nanothermite - YouTube

Never mind the fact that they were digging up pools of molten steel for months after 9/11. If it wasn’t thermite what was it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqJSDn5dgJc

1 other fact,on day 1 we id'd 38 different chemicals and hazardous materials at the site thru several different methods that the EPA lied about!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes they did and today many men and women are dying because they were lied to. So if you acknowledge you were lied to about this why is it such a stretch that you were lied to about other elements of 9/11?

ALSO,STOP WITH THE BS CONSPIRACY THEORIES!!!!! There was video of the terrorists getting on the planes at the airports

You’re mistaken. There are NO video or photos that have been proven to be from what the story is. For instance there is one famous photo of Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz al-Omari passing through security, we’ve been told over and over that this is then boarding flight 11, this isn’t the case. The photo is of them boarding a plane in at Portland International.

American Airlines Flight 11 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I really am sick of the BS about 9/11, if you were NOT there stop talking like you were because you make asses of yourselves!!!! I WAS THERE AND I LIVED THRU IT AND HAVE TO LIVE IT EVERYDAY OF MY LIFE BECAUSE OF ASSES LIKE YOU!!!!! I am sick from it and on meds to help me breath from it so SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY AND END IT!!!!!!!!!!!

Very emotional Stuff Mike and I’m sorry that you’re a victim of this. You should want to find out who did this to you, and the other thousands who died on that day and are dying now.

[VE5JL]

Originally Posted by zz0468

Well, as a matter of fact, I was. Indeed. Which is exactly why I selected that photo. You asked for someone to show you a picture of a 757 emitting a streak of white smoke. I did just that. Ok, smoke, condensation. Whatever. When trying to counter absurdest theories such as yours, a little poetic license with semantics is allowed.

Fair enough but I’m not posing theories if anything I’m corrected the ‘theory’ that a 757 hit the pentagon.

Originally Posted by zz0468

Save it. I have my pilots license…

Really? So it’s doesn’t bother you as a pilot that they are misrepresenting the characteristics of flight to further their conspiracy theory?

Ever wonder why 8 commercially trained (and some with military training) did'nt call Mayday or resist the attackers? No squawk 7500?

Did you know that in the history of commercial aviation the only time they’ve never found the so-called black boxes in a crash was on 9/11 Oh, they did however find the passport in pristine condition from one of the hijackers that fell out of his pocket, through a fireball and on the street.

As a pilot you should be deeply offended that they would besmirch the memory of the crew of the flight by saying a small fry who couldn’t properly land a 172 pulled off an amazing maneuver that trained 757 pilots couldn’t.

Originally Posted by zz0468

You've missed my point entirely. Just because you think you see a streak of white smoke does not mean that it WASN'T a 757.

I didn’t way I saw the smoke, N1RGR said that. I was just pointing out that NO commercial jet emits white smoke the way the video shows.

Originally Posted by zz0468

What annoys me most about people like you is that there were 4 plane loads of people that ended up dead, and all the crack pots and whack jobs out there are trivializing the horrors of the day by attempting to make it into something that it is not.

How does debunking government propaganda and trying to get to the truth do any of that? All you are doing is infusing emotion into what should be a dissection of science and logic. Are those people dead, sure they are, don’t you want to know the reason why and who did it?

Originally Posted by zz0468

It's incomprehensible to me how it's more believable that the U.S. could intentionally kill 3000 of it's own people, than the possibility that a well organized and well funded terrorist group that actually hates us could, and would, do such a thing? What the hell are you people thinking? What the hell is wrong with your brain that such idiotic ideas make sense? Why the hell am I even bothering with you? You're not worth the time and trouble.

If it is incomprehensible to you then you don’t know history. Killing its own citizens is nothing new in history and even recent American history. Remember Vietnam and the Gulf of Tonkin incident? The US had no problem killing 50 thousand US citizens in Vietnam over lies and propaganda.

Take 5 minutes to look at the video it about sums up the real conspiracy theory of 9/11

9/11: A Conspiracy Theory - YouTube

[zz0468]

Originally Posted by VE5JL

Take 5 minutes to look at the video...

No.

The vast majority of 9/11 conspiracy crap is idiotic. The rest is lame.

You people are all wrapped up in a make believe conspiracy when the real conspiracy was absolutely horrific. Isn't that enough???

[N1RGR]

Originally Posted by VE5JL;1857384} [FONT=Verdana

I didn’t way I saw the smoke, N1RGR said that. I was just pointing out that NO commercial jet emits white smoke the way the video shows.

A low flying commercial jet that struck two utility lamp posts on the highway very well might emit smoke. As I recall there were also pieces of the aircraft left on the highway by those lamp posts which proves that the aircraft did in fact suffer damage before impacting the pentagon. I also think that the condensation theory is a lodgical proven explination. But to suggest that it was a cruse missile just because there was what appears to be a smoke trail in the video is absolutely absurd!

[VE5JL]

Originally Posted by N1RGR

A low flying commercial jet that struck two utility lamp posts on the highway very well might emit smoke. As I recall there were also pieces of the aircraft left on the highway by those lamp posts which proves that the aircraft did in fact suffer damage before impacting the pentagon. I also think that the condensation theory is a lodgical (SIC) proven explination. (SIC) But to suggest that it was a cruse missile just because there was what appears to be a smoke trail in the video is absolutely absurd!

If the lamp posts where hit, according to NTSB data they must be 440 feet tall because that is how high the AC was when it passed over them according to the FDR data supplied by the NTSB.

American 77 (Pentagon) @ pilotsfor911truth.org

[zz0468]

Originally Posted by VE5JL

If the lamp posts where hit, according to NTSB data they must be 440 feet tall because that is how high the AC was when it passed over them according to the FDR data supplied by the NTSB.

What IS the point? The Pentagon was strewn with identifiable aircraft wreckage. We know what flight it was. We know who died, both in the building, and on the aircraft. We know the group responsible. We know the motive. We know what happened. The families of the victims know what happened. The whole f'ing world knows what happened. Except, you.

Can anyone tell me what the point of questioning these incontrovertible facts is? What a useless, stupid, asinine, idiotic waste of energy this is.

[rdale]

FDR data supplied by the NTSB is not the same as data from the NTSB. What does NTSB say the height on the plane was?

[VE5JL]

Originally Posted by zz0468

No.

The vast majority of 9/11 conspiracy crap is idiotic. The rest is lame.

You people are all wrapped up in a make believe conspiracy when the real conspiracy was absolutely horrific. Isn't that enough???
[/FONT]

Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.” – Albert Einstein

[VE5JL]

Originally Posted by rdale

FDR data supplied by the NTSB is not the same as data from the NTSB. What does NTSB say the height on the plane was?

440 feet (+/- 75 feet)

"This altitude has been determined to reflect Pressure altitude as set by 29.92 inHg on the Altimeter. The actual local pressure for DCA at impact time was 30.22 inHg. The error for this discrepancy is 300 feet. Meaning, the actual aircraft altitude was 300 feet higher than indicated at that moment in time. Which means aircraft altitude was 480 feet above sea level (MSL, 75 foot margin for error according to Federal Aviation Regulations). You can clearly see the highway in the below screenshot directly under the aircraft. The elevation for that highway is ~40 feet above sea level according to the US Geological Survey. The light poles would have had to been 440 feet tall (+/- 75 feet) for this aircraft to bring them down..."

American 77 (Pentagon) @ pilotsfor911truth.org

[VE5JL]

Originally Posted by zz0468

What IS the point?

To have a real investigation and bring the perpetrators to justice. Isn’t that what you’d want?

Originally Posted by zz0468

The Pentagon was strewn with identifiable aircraft wreckage.

As a pilot you should know that all parts on a plane have serial numbers. No serial numbers from that Boeing were found on the pristine lawn of the Pentagon.

Originally Posted by zz0468

We know what flight it was.

Yes because you were told that over and over.

Originally Posted by zz0468

We know who died, both in the building, and on the aircraft.

Yes because you were told that over and over.

Originally Posted by zz0468

We know the group responsible.

Yes because you were told that over and over.

Originally Posted by zz0468

We know the motive.

Yes because you were told that over and over.

Originally Posted by zz0468

We know what happened.

Yes because you were told what happened over and over.

Originally Posted by zz0468

The families of the victims know what happened.

Some do, many don’t believe the government version.

Originally Posted by zz0468

The whole f'ing world knows what happened. Except, you.

Really? And did you take a poll? Talk about an ‘asinine’ statement.

Originally Posted by zz0468

Can anyone tell me what the point of questioning these incontrovertible facts is?

That is the point, there is no ‘incontrovertible fact’ that 19 men with box cutters defeated the most powerful military in the world.

Originally Posted by zz0468

What a useless, stupid, asinine, idiotic waste of energy this is.

Debate 101. When losing a debate resort to name calling.

Here is one thing I’d like to leave you with that is NOT from a source that you can dispute. This is from the site of the FBI. Look at the wanted post of Usama (Osama) Bin Laden and ask why is he not accused on his top 10 wanted poster of involvement in 9/11? Isn’t that what you were told hours after it started that he was the mastermind? I find that very odd.

FBI — USAMA BIN LADEN

[zz0468]

Originally Posted by VE5JL

As a pilot you should know that all parts on a plane have serial numbers. No serial numbers from that Boeing were found on the pristine lawn of the Pentagon.

What credible source is that from? Show me an NTSB report (or similarly authoritative source) that specifically states that it can't identify the wreckage. But for what it's worth, here's an interesting video on what happens to aluminum aircraft when crashed into thick walls:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--_RGM4Abv8

Originally Posted by VE5JL

That is the point, there is no ‘incontrovertible fact’ that 19 men with box cutters defeated the most powerful military in the world.

It's this sort of thinking that allowed it to happen in the first place.

Originally Posted by VE5JL

Debate 101. When losing a debate resort to name calling.

Perhaps. But these conspiracy theories are still asinine, and based on bad "science",poorly informed opinion, and gross misunderstandings of real fact. There are NO credible scientific opinions in support of anything other than hijacked airplanes.

Originally Posted by VE5JL

Here is one thing I’d like to leave you with that is NOT from a source that you can dispute. This is from the site of the FBI. Look at the wanted post of Usama (Osama) Bin Laden and ask why is he not accused on his top 10 wanted poster of involvement in 9/11?

Did you not notice the June 1999 original date of the poster?

[VE5JL]

Originally Posted by zz0468

Did you not notice the June 1999 original date of the poster?

LOL... did you not noticed the "...Poster Revised November 2001" on the next line?

Have another look.

FBI — USAMA BIN LADEN

I don't want you to believe EVERYTHING that is said about 9/11 from either side. All I ever wanted anyone to do was take a non emotional look at the evidence. The fact that the man central to 9/11 isn't even accused of the act on his wanted poster should send up red flags.

As a pilot you should ask a lot of questions.

Here is a great video from radar data that day. DATA supplied by the government that show the flights of that day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtRScsFPUbE

War Games, Simulated radar tracks, aircraft exceeding their max operating limits by more than 130-150 knots, inaccurate aircraft position reports, false aircraft target reports, aircraft converging -- flying virtually in formation with -- and then diverging from reported 9/11 aircraft, fighters launched in the wrong direction, aircraft seemingly still airborne after the alleged attack, poor communications, phones not working.... What happened on the morning of September 11, 2001? Why were our defenses ineffective? Pilots For 9/11 Truth analyze NORAD response, Audio recordings as well as Radar data provided by government agencies.

[rdale]

Originally Posted by VE5JL

440 feet (+/- 75 feet)

I didn't ask for your interpretation of NTSB's data. I asked for NTSB's determination of the plane height.