The War on Drugs FAILURE!

[Joke_Insurance]

The War on Drugs is not a failure to those who make tons of money off of it. That is why it is still in motion.

[brandon]

Originally Posted by EJB

Do you like seeing your tax money wasted on a war that cannot be won?

Yes. And purely for selfish reasons. It gives me some exciting comms to monitor on the scanner.

[Arizona_Scanner]

People will find ways to get high, so long as people are imperfect. This of course, excludes those blessed few who have perfect lives.

People will use drugs, even prescriptions if needed, and alcohol if needed. If all else fails, they will MAKE alcohol or drugs. A war on drugs is as silly as the war on alcohol was. If people want to light one up, or have a few drinks, that's THEIR business, until it infringes on the rights of others. At that point, it must be dealt with. But how? As a "legal" problem? Does jail or prison cure drug addiction? No.

So....if we REALLY want to solve that issue, we treat addiction (of all types) as a medical issue (the way Europe treats addiction...where they have less of a drug "problem").

Otherwise....stay out of people's bedrooms, living rooms, family rooms, etc., unless we can show clear evidence that someone is being hurt by the actions of the person getting high, or doing whatever they are doing.

And don't tell me the "drug cartels" are hurting people, because they wouldn't be, if we took their profit motive out of the equation and legalized and taxed pot. Let's face it, pot is the main, consistent, driving element of drug money. Coke and meth are secondary, and of course cannot be legal. If we decriminalized and taxed pot, we would instantly eliminate half of the "drug war", and coca plants take 10-20 years to mature so don't tell me we can't stop that production if we REALLY want to. There are a lot of BS games played in the "drug war", because , too many (including law enforcement - grants, etc.), get too much money out of it.

How do I know? Trust me, I've seen every side of the issue, and nobody has clean hands in this. Money is as always, the root of the problem with the "drug war". It is all about the buck, and NOT about getting people the help they really need, to SOLVE the core issue, demand.

I admire and respect law enforcement...always have. But almost all agencies now have gotten addicted to the money they get for drug enforcement. It buys things, and pays people. It's a hard habit to break. Because of this, they often DON'T want the game to be redefined, or for the rules to be changed.

[InlandAZ]

And don't tell me the "drug cartels" are hurting people, because they wouldn't be, if we took their profit motive out of the equation and legalized and taxed pot

Last time I checked, pot wasn't all they moved. While I don't totally disagree with your statement, you'd have to legalize the entire enchilada to remove them from the equation. I for one don’t want to see that happen.

[Arizona_Scanner]

Originally Posted by InlandAZ

Last time I checked, pot wasn't all they moved. While I don't totally disagree with your statement, you'd have to legalize the entire enchilada to remove them from the equation. I for one don’t want to see that happen.

I understand what you are saying. We absolutely cannot legalize hard drugs, and I know that they cartels move plenty of that too. I agree that they are a problem in that regard and that they do hurt people so I will make that correction.

I disagree that pot can't be legalized without legalizing meth and coke. We have legal alcohol after all, and that has worked out better than prohibition.

The ONLY way to stop the flow of coke, heroin, meth, etc., is to actually close off the border. I find it interesting how people say that building a wall is impossible when the Chinese built a very long wall centuries ago before the advent of modern equipment. Would it be hard and expensive? Of course, but worth it.

[EJB]

Originally Posted by Arizona_Scanner

I understand what you are saying. We absolutely cannot legalize hard drugs, and I know that they cartels move plenty of that too. I agree that they are a problem in that regard and that they do hurt people so I will make that correction.

I disagree that pot can't be legalized without legalizing meth and coke. We have legal alcohol after all, and that has worked out better than prohibition.

The ONLY way to stop the flow of coke, heroin, meth, etc., is to actually close off the border. I find it interesting how people say that building a wall is impossible when the Chinese built a very long wall centuries ago before the advent of modern equipment. Would it be hard and expensive? Of course, but worth it.

Impossible. Your nation relies on the goods that come from Canada and Mexico as well as the finished goods from each nation. In fact, your president has finally wised up and signed a deal with Canada on how to allow goods to come across with border control. Maybe if the borders were protected better they could stop all the bad hard drugs get in but the reality is that for every time they stop a person or a shipment there are probably thousands that get in,

And I argue about legal alcahol. Legal alcahol is addictive, it kills families, innocent people get killed when they drink (and drive). The main reason why FDR allowed for it back wasnt because he was enlightened about booze and it wasnt because his supporters had large working-class catholics who were against Prohibition.

Pot doesnt do any of the above stuff. You smoke it, get high and eat junk food.

It was because they were never going to win this war and the government needed revenues. Many politicians in the late 20's-early 30's Donkeys and Elephants, were thinking of a VAT on all services.. Instead, the brewers, were allowed to brew and the government was able to control it with taxes and make $ off it.

I wish they'd just look the other way, allow people to grow their own pot and instead of throwing drug addicts in jail (and teach them to be better crimminals) that they allow for more needle exchange, safe houses to use and even, gasp, get their drugs.

Never gonna stop it or beat it.

[EJB]

I also think that the advent of oxy-contin has really changed up and is way worse a threat than weed.

Like Heroin, Oxy was designed as a safe drug. In the late 1800's Bayer developed Heroin as a safer, more effective alternative, less addictive srug than morphine, the gold standard for pain relief then and now.

When Oxy became available it was sold as a alternative pain killer; less addictive than morphine and dilaudid, Fentenyal, etc.

Well, doctors perscribed it and look what hapenned. It became one of the most popular drugs and very quickly became abused. It is extremely addictive.

To people who use it for pain, it is a god send. To others it is a god-send for another reason. You mix it with booze and you die. People who get it and Vicodin use it, take too much of it and either die or ruin their livers and kidneys (tynolol and ASA, advil in large doses does as much of not more damage than narcotics).

So now people who need it have to jump thru hoops to get it. If you have chronic pain and cannot get thru a day without pain killers Oxy is a god-send. It is the lessor of two evils, if there is no cure for chronic pain (and often there isnt) then why should a person suffer?

But if you ask your doctor for it, he will either lecture you or laugh.


When I broke my back my family doctor would not let me on it, I work in a warehouse and do lots of desk and physical work. I cannot go on diability or welfare, there isnt enough money on it besides I dont mind working. Eventually I was sent to a pain doctor and with a mix of real pain killers (not oxy, it gives me a headache in large doses) and injections I get by.

P.S. Science is at the point now that they can put a pump in your skin and give you your drug for up to 6 months at a time. Now imagine if you are a patient, instead of having to go to a doctor continuously (and costing everyone money, the doctors bill, you pay or your insurance pays if you have it) you can go to a doctor less often.

But thats another argument

[InlandAZ]

Pot doesnt do any of the above stuff. You smoke it, get high and eat junk food.

Pot fan eh?

[EJB]

Originally Posted by InlandAZ

Pot fan eh?

Nope, I do not take illegal drugs, I am a family man, with a job, politically active and active enough in my community. I just see absolutely no sense in fighting a battle that cannot be won when there is $ needed in more important places. However, I was once young and I did watch the Harold and Kumar and Cheech and Chong movies :-)

Some people use pot for pain, I dont think it does anything to reduce pain. It does help people with eating disorders and cancer patients find that it reduces stomach issues and helps people eat. Migraine sufferers use it to reduce the severity of the symptoms, that and a strong cup of coffee help.

[kb2vxa]

It will be generations before pot will be legalized for the same reason it will take that long for America to realize socialized medicine is a good thing. Many years of propaganda brainwashing came back to bite us on the arse, the brainwashed must die off before we as a nation can come to our senses.

Be patient, Ash and his friends still have a chance.

[EJB]

Originally Posted by kb2vxa

It will be generations before pot will be legalized for the same reason it will take that long for America to realize socialized medicine is a good thing. Many years of propaganda brainwashing came back to bite us on the arse, the brainwashed must die off before we as a nation can come to our senses.

Be patient, Ash and his friends still have a chance.

You are WAY too old to be knowing anything about Pokemon Warren unless you have a grand child, lol

I dont think you will ever see a true medicare system in the states in many many many years, maybe a public/private set up like the UK or Australia. Best to look to Europe for how they do it before going down that road. The Canadian system is not that bad, I defend it, I use it, it costs a lot to run but despite our higher taxes we spend 2/3 per patient than you guys do.

Should have been a doctor. My best friends uncle worked his butt off studying in the late 60's, got his practise, bought a house in the 70's for $ 600,000 dollars, in a rich area of Toronto. Look at that again, $600,000 dollars in the 70's. He paid cash. Now, the house is probably worth 5 million. So doctors here do well, you dont have to go to the states to make it rich.

[kb2vxa]

Funny you should say that, I took a liking to Poke`mon early on and watched it through several stages of the show. I'd probably still be watching it if it if I could find it on the TV.

Don't you know that it's worth every treasure on earth
To be young at heart
For as rich as you are it's much better by far
To be young at heart

Maybe you're right, I've never seen a poor country doctor outside the movies. Eh, these days I wouldn't want to live in Toronto, a once great city gone down the dumper since the 70s pretty much like every major city in North America. Methinks your estimate may be just a bit high, urban blight has a huge negative effect on property values.

Me? A doctor? Take two tokes and call me in the morning may go over in Amsterdam... (;->)

[EJB]

Originally Posted by kb2vxa

Funny you should say that, I took a liking to Poke`mon early on and watched it through several stages of the show. I'd probably still be watching it if it if I could find it on the TV.

Don't you know that it's worth every treasure on earth
To be young at heart
For as rich as you are it's much better by far
To be young at heart

Maybe you're right, I've never seen a poor country doctor outside the movies. Eh, these days I wouldn't want to live in Toronto, a once great city gone down the dumper since the 70s pretty much like every major city in North America. Methinks your estimate may be just a bit high, urban blight has a huge negative effect on property values.

Me? A doctor? Take two tokes and call me in the morning may go over in Amsterdam... (;->)

???
Toronto is one of a number of cities that has people always wanting to live in the 'core.' NYC, Boston, SF I guess.

Toronto is the 4th largest city in NA. There is so much money there and the core is loaded with condos , 100's of them. The slums are actually outside of the core. The house my buddies uncle has is right in midtown and is worth millions.

[Ray_Air]

The U.S government has been caught numerous times shipping drugs into the country. It's a billion dollar business! The "war on drugs" is a scam just like the "war on terror". It's a war on YOU!

[kayn1n32008]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9780; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.8+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0.0.600 Mobile Safari/534.8+)

And the government, knowing they cannot 'win', would rather throw good money after bad, rather than have to admit that the 'war' on drugs is a failure and legalize pot. So more people are going to die, and the cartels are going to make their TRILLIONS, because legal or not Americans, and Canadians LOVE their pot, along with other stuff too and so the circle continues round and round...

[W7DPS]

The answer always comes so easily, doesn't it? We have too many people in prison for drugs, so just legalize the drugs and everything will be fine. Or maybe just legalize the drugs you want to use, and keep the rest illegal still. Yeah, that's the ticket. Actually, if the trouble is that people aren't obeying laws, and they're getting arrested, why not just abolish all those pesky laws? After all, nobody will be in jail or prison then. With no laws, we won't need police officers, lawyers, judges, courts, legislators, Congresscritters. The world would be a utopian paradise and all would live in harmony.

[/sarcasm]

[kayn1n32008]

Originally Posted by W7DPS

The answer always comes so easily, doesn't it? We have too many people in prison for drugs, so just legalize the drugs and everything will be fine. Or maybe just legalize the drugs you want to use, and keep the rest illegal still. Yeah, that's the ticket. Actually, if the trouble is that people aren't obeying laws, and they're getting arrested, why not just abolish all those pesky laws? After all, nobody will be in jail or prison then. With no laws, we won't need police officers, lawyers, judges, courts, legislators, Congresscritters. The world would be a utopian paradise and all would live in harmony.

[/sarcasm]

Nice such a narrow view.

I agree with throwing the book at people that deal drugs like cocaine, heroin, meth, extacy, lsd, ketemine. Pot should be legal, much like alcohol. I STRONGLY disagree with locking up people that are addicted to drugs. this accomplishes NOTHING. These people are not going to get better and will, after release be worse off than before going to jail. Locking someone up for having a half gram of meth for years does not fix the problem but only makes things worse, and you end up with what the US has now, an over filled prison system that allows criminals that are truly dagerous to be released while someone that has an addiction to rot when the ywould be better off getting treatment for the addiction.

Fix the problem do not knee jerk at the symtom.

[kayn1n32008]

Originally Posted by Ray_Air

The U.S government has been caught numerous times shipping drugs into the country. It's a billion dollar business! The "war on drugs" is a scam just like the "war on terror". It's a war on YOU!

Quote of the thread

[com501]

The Chinese had an elegant solution.

Round up all addicts. Put them in an isolated location.

Give them all the drugs they wanted. Wait for them to die.

Anyone else caught with drugs in the country had a choice, go use them with the others that are isolated or get shot, on the spot.

No care provided to the addicts, no quarter given to new possessors.

Elegant but quite cruel. I don't know what the solution is, but I do not that legalizing it would not help. All it would do is create a two cast worker system. THESE jobs you can get if you are clean, THESE jobs you can get if your drug test comes up positive.

[zz0468]

Originally Posted by com501

... All it would do is create a two cast worker system. THESE jobs you can get if you are clean, THESE jobs you can get if your drug test comes up positive.

We're there now. Many employers have required drug screening for 20 years now, and I'm seeing occasional rejects due to positives.