Drones Targeting Americans!!!

[N1RGR]

This story is absolutely CHILLING!!!!! If this is not a clear attack on our liberty by this administration then nothing is! A memo leak out from the justice department indicates that the White House condones Drone strikes on Americans! In fact a 16 year old American boy was targeted and killed because his father was a known terroist! No trial,No Rights just a death sentence!

And where is the outcry from those on the left who attacked Bush for the water boarding tactics? Why are they now all silent?

Many folks involved the gun control debate find it ridiculous that we gun rights supporters often site our forefathers in regards to the need to arm and protect ourselves from the tyranny of the government. This is a perfect example why this is still true today! Every American should be outraged!

[mikepdx]

Originally Posted by N1RGR

This story is absolutely CHILLING!!!!!
Every American should be outraged!

A memo from our so-called Justice Dept has replaced
the Fifth and Fourteenth amendments to the constitution
guaranteeing due process.

The constitution is the supreme law of the land.
And what do we commonly call those who violate any law?
CRIMINALS.

Criminals and traitors are running the government of the people.

[N1RGR]

Originally Posted by mikepdx

A memo from our so-called Justice Dept has replaced
the Fifth and Fourteenth amendments to the constitution
guaranteeing due process.

The constitution is the supreme law of the land.
And what do we commonly call those who violate any law?
CRIMINALS.

Criminals and traitors are running the government of the people.

Couple that Mike with news a few months back that the Pentagon would be utilizing Drones over the CONUS. For what? Whats next will they be targeting Americans with air strikes right here at home? This is truly scary sh*t!

[zz0468]

I think where we're getting hung up on this is a misconception that Al Qaeda is performing criminal acts, which would be untrue. They are committing acts of war.

Does anyone have a better, viable, idea on how to handle American citizens committing acts of war upon their own country? Would you guys rant if the policy was to extract them, and bring them home for trial? What if the forces doing the extraction are injured or killed in the process? Who would you blame? Is that Obama's fault, too?

I'm not ready to be outraged by this. I rather like the idea of American Al Qaeda members getting snuffed out along with the rest of them.

[Highpockets]

Originally Posted by zz0468

I think where we're getting hung up on this is a misconception that Al Qaeda is performing criminal acts, which would be untrue. They are committing acts of war.

Does anyone have a better, viable, idea on how to handle American citizens committing acts of war upon their own country? Would you guys rant if the policy was to extract them, and bring them home for trial? What if the forces doing the extraction are injured or killed in the process? Who would you blame? Is that Obama's fault, too?

I'm not ready to be outraged by this. I rather like the idea of American Al Qaeda members getting snuffed out along with the rest of them.

This is one of the hardest things I've had to do in a while, I agree with you.

If they are American and team up with Al Qaeda and are out of the country get them with drones, no loss of American lives. If they are in country try to capture them without loss of life, if not possible, take them out what ever way needed. If caught they should be given a military trial and face the death penalty. (Keep Holders out of this)

The key word here is they are at war with the US and they should be treated as such.

[Squad10]

Originally Posted by N1RGR

Couple that Mike with news a few months back that the Pentagon would be utilizing Drones over the CONUS.

Mental note, add to personal survival kit:

1.) 1.57542 GHz, 1.2276 GHz, 1.17645 GHz, 1.602 GHz, and 1.246 GHz transmitters and antennas.

2.) 500–600 nanometers pulsed laser emitter.

3.) More batteries.

[Highpockets]

Originally Posted by N1RGR

Couple that Mike with news a few months back that the Pentagon would be utilizing Drones over the CONUS. For what? Whats next will they be targeting Americans with air strikes right here at home? This is truly scary sh*t!

That's a subject that has it's pros/cons, and right now with obama/holder in office it is scary. I can see them used along the border to assist the border patrol (even armed) but to just fly over New York or Delaware makes no sense. If a large police force has them I can see putting it up for a particlar reason and land when the mission is over seems logical. Looking for a lost hiker in the desert, woods or mountains might also be something I would agree with or someone lost at sea. Just having them fly around could open to many doors and that is where the Constitution comes into effect. Put it this way, "Do you trust the government just having them flying over head" I don't...

[N1RGR]

Originally Posted by zz0468

Does anyone have a better, viable, idea on how to handle American citizens committing acts of war upon their own country?

Who said that the 16 year old boy was committing acts of war against his own country? The fact of the matter is that the boy mentioned in my original post was not connect with any acts of terror. His father was!

You liberals really crack me up! On the one hand many of you liberals cried out to kingdom come that water boarding tactics supported by the Bush administration against Islamic terroists were barbaric and cruel. But now that Obama is at the helm killing Americans without a trial or due process is somehow patriotic? Are you kidding?

Like it or not Americans have rights! And when the government feels that it can take those rights away and kill you when ever it see's fit our liberty is gone!

Originally Posted by zz0468

I'm not ready to be outraged by this. I rather like the idea of American Al Qaeda members getting snuffed out along with the rest of them.

Im sure if Bush were in office you would be outraged! Every American should be outraged! This is more of Obama's brand of transparency!

[Highpockets]

Originally Posted by N1RGR

Who said that the 16 year old boy was committing acts of war against his own country? The fact of the matter is that the boy mentioned in my original post was not connect with any acts of terror. His father was!

You liberals really crack me up! On the one hand many of you liberals cried out to kingdom come that water boarding tactics supported by the Bush administration against Islamic terroists were barbaric and cruel. But now that Obama is at the helm killing Americans without a trial or due process is somehow patriotic? Are you kidding?

Like it or not Americans have rights! And when the government feels that it can take those rights away and kill you when ever it see's fit our liberty is gone!

Im sure if Bush were in office you would be outraged! Every American should be outraged! This is more of Obama's brand of transparency!

Oh no! I guess I should get ready for the post that will tear me up for agreeing with ZZ. I took a couple of allergy pills before that post, does that count as a no post?

[zz0468]

Originally Posted by N1RGR

Who said that the 16 year old boy was committing acts of war against his own country? The fact of the matter is that the boy mentioned in my original post was not connect with any acts of terror. His father was!

The boy was not targeted. He was co-located with the real target.

Why no outrage over the dozens (hundreds?) of innocent foreign Muslims who were also co-located with high value Al Queda targets?

Originally Posted by N1RGR

You liberals really crack me up! On the one hand many of you liberals cried out to kingdom come that water boarding tactics supported by the Bush administration against Islamic terroists were barbaric and cruel. But now that Obama is at the helm killing Americans without a trial or due process is somehow patriotic?

LOL... I was about to comment that you're sounding like a liberal.

Originally Posted by N1RGR

Are you kidding?

No.

Originally Posted by N1RGR

Like it or not Americans have rights! And when the government feels that it can take those rights away and kill you when ever it see's fit our liberty is gone!

Under normal circumstances, I agree with you. A dirty war with dirty tactics is not normal circumstances. None of this has anything to do with domestic policy, so has no impact on citizens at home.

Originally Posted by N1RGR

Im sure if Bush were in office you would be outraged! Every American should be outraged! This is more of Obama's brand of transparency!

Funny thing that you mention Bush... These drone strikes targeting Al Qaeda targets were actually started during the Bush administration. I remember hearing lots of outrage by the liberal sector about collateral casualties, and the conservative sector saying something along the lines of "war is hell" and suggesting that the innocents getting vaporized would have done well to find better companions to hang out with.

[zz0468]

Originally Posted by Highpockets

This is one of the hardest things I've had to do in a while, I agree with you.

[N1RGR]

Originally Posted by Highpockets

Oh no! I guess I should get ready for the post that will tear me up for agreeing with ZZ. I took a couple of allergy pills before that post, does that count as a no post?

Its obvious you washed the pills down with Jack Daniels!

[N1RGR]

Originally Posted by zz0468

The boy was not targeted. He was co-located with the real target.

Why no outrage over the dozens (hundreds?) of innocent foreign Muslims who were also co-located with high value Al Queda targets?

Were any of them American? So your point is?????

Originally Posted by zz0468

Under normal circumstances, I agree with you. A dirty war with dirty tactics is not normal circumstances. None of this has anything to do with domestic policy, so has no impact on citizens at home.

So your ok with the government killing Americans abroad without any consequences or question as long as it doesen't happen here in the states. Wow.

Originally Posted by zz0468

Funny thing that you mention Bush... These drone strikes targeting Al Qaeda targets were actually started during the Bush administration. I remember hearing lots of outrage by the liberal sector about collateral casualties, and the conservative sector saying something along the lines of "war is hell" and suggesting that the innocents getting vaporized would have done well to find better companions to hang out with.

Were the Drones killing Americans during the Bush administration? I will sum it up like this.................ITS ILLEGAL AND UNETHICAL!

And that goes for you too Pockets!

[Highpockets]

Originally Posted by N1RGR

Were any of them American? So your point is?????

So your ok with the government killing Americans abroad without any consequences or question as long as it doesen't happen here in the states. Wow.

Were the Drones killing Americans during the Bush administration? I will sum it up like this.................ITS ILLEGAL AND UNETHICAL!

And that goes for you too Pockets!

I understand your points and technically your right, myself, when you join the enemy who is at war with this country, you are the enemy. And when it comes to the enemy, it's kill or be killed. Especially an enemy who will blow themselves up in the middle of Times Square and kill woman and children because they are American. Why would you want to take a chance (especially under obama/holder) putting them on trial and possibly walking on a technicality. That's why I favor keeping Gitmo (military trials), I don't trust obama/holder to do their job in that respect.

If these people when/if captured were sent to Gitmo and given a military trial, I'd be for that, but I don't think that will happen under obama/holder, so I'll go with the drone choice.

And I don't understand, obama will use drones to kill these people but won't use Gitmo and military trials. These people are still at gitmo, playing soccer and getting treated better then the people in our prisons, something wrong with that picture.

Also, if the Navy Seals broke down the door and his 16 year old son was there, would he raise his hands or pick up a gun?

[ff-medic]

Originally Posted by N1RGR

This story is absolutely CHILLING!!!!!

What story. I do not see the link.

Originally Posted by N1RGR

If this is not a clear attack on our liberty by this administration then nothing is! A memo leak out from the justice department indicates that the White House condones Drone strikes on Americans!

?? Americans overseas whom are supporting terrorism, and terror action against Americans and their allies?

Originally Posted by N1RGR

In fact a 16 year old American boy was targeted and killed because his father was a known terroist! No trial,No Rights just a death sentence!

Must be top news. I have not read, seen, nor heard it on any of the major news networks.

Originally Posted by N1RGR

And where is the outcry from those on the left who attacked Bush for the water boarding tactics? Why are they now all silent?

I think you are paranoid. TOOOOO paranoid.

Originally Posted by N1RGR

Many folks involved the gun control debate find it ridiculous that we gun rights supporters often site our forefathers in regards to the need to arm and protect ourselves from the tyranny of the government. This is a perfect example why this is still true today! Every American should be outraged!

Ever heard of collateral damage, and hurting innocent civilians? I will tune into my secret radar and try to locate any drones flying in the United States. If I find any, I will do a screen capture and post it to you in a private message.

FF-Medic !!!

[ff-medic]

Originally Posted by Highpockets

I
Also, if the Navy Seals broke down the door and his 16 year old son was there, would he raise his hands or pick up a gun?

NO....I am not a U.S Navy SEAL. But with past news releases, articles, and news stories...I would bet it would be two rounds to the enemy combatants head from a MP5 Submachine gun, then move on. ( Shooting the head shuts down the central nervous system of the enemy combatant and prevents them from shooting a weapon - or detonating explosives on their body, or detonating explosives placed in/on the premisies/property. Simply put = Shooting the head prevents the brain from sending signals to the rest of the body )

The United States is loosing patience with terrorist. They have just about as much persons contained and interviewed as they are going to get. Taking out terrorist sends a message - turn yourself in, fess up, tell us what we need to know, or die on the so called "battlefield".

The United States, United Kingdom, and others have enough detainees. This is not the incipent stage anymore where we need "Volumes" of intel, due to a lack of previous human assets on the ground. Drones, men on the ground, armor, aircraft...and others are taking out enemy personnel, and their strongholds. It sends a message, that to get caught with the enemy, is to fall with the enemy.

Enemy personnel come in all ages groups, sexs and races.

I know what you are thinking, You want me to contradict myself ----- > I previously said that some people are to young to fight, and do not know any better ; and that they are influanced by others. BUT....THAT being said, an enemy combatant, is an enemy combatant. In combat it is better for the enemy personnel to fall, than the good guys.

FF-Medic !!!

[ff-medic]

Originally Posted by N1RGR

Couple that Mike with news a few months back that the Pentagon would be utilizing Drones over the CONUS. For what? Whats next will they be targeting Americans with air strikes right here at home? This is truly scary sh*t!

Hmmmmmm. Alot of conspiracy theorist here

FF-Medic !!!

[zz0468]

Originally Posted by N1RGR

Were any of them American? So your point is?????

Should it matter? There are innocents dying. It seems rather hypocritical of you to feign outrage at the death of a so-called "innocent" American when plenty of innocents of other nations are dying too. Why do they matter less?

Originally Posted by N1RGR

So your ok with the government killing Americans abroad without any consequences or question as long as it doesen't happen here in the states. Wow.

Wow, nothing. I'm just being pragmatic about it. I prefer to look at the situation as this:

1. Al Qaeda is a declared enemy of the U.S. that has attacked us on our own soil.

2. Al Qaeda consists of loosely organized multinational fighters from probably two dozen different countries.

3. One of those countries is the U.S.

I don't look at the drone attacks as targeting Americans, I look at it as targeting Al Qaeda. Almost none of the other nations who have citizen members of Al Qaeda are at war with us, and some would be considered allies. Yet we kill them with impunity.

You see where I'm going with that?

Originally Posted by N1RGR

Were the Drones killing Americans during the Bush administration? I will sum it up like this.................ITS ILLEGAL AND UNETHICAL!

I'm starting to think that you're not the hardcore conservative that you portray yourself to be. Fretting about the nationality of combatants in a terrorist organization is not a traditionally conservative cause.

[com501]

I draw the line at any drone overflights of the USA for any reason, other than border surveillance and only armed drones for border enforcement or over military bombing ranges for training or while to/from missions while leaving the country.

Certainly no military or civilian drones armed or otherwise surveilling the US countryside, without a warrant executed under proper circumstance, just like any other surveillance.

[N1RGR]

Originally Posted by ff-medic

What story. I do not see the link.

Turn on the TV,pick up a news paper.....Really???