RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > Canada Radio Discussion Forums > Prairies and Pacific Coast


Prairies and Pacific Coast - Forum for discussing radio information in the Alberta, Manitoba, Northwest Territories, Nunavut, Saskatchewan, Yukon and British Columbia provinces.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-26-2016, 3:48 PM
jloriginal's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: calgary alberta canada
Posts: 103
Smile calgary ems now silent

It seems I can upload Calgary ems frequencies but hear nothing on playback. no problem uploading Calgary police service and fire. does it have anything to do with Calgary digital radio system now being called Calgary municipal radio system.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-26-2016, 4:34 PM
mciupa's Avatar
Moderator
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,564
Lightbulb http://forums.radioreference.com/prairies-pacific-coast/345133-calgary-ems-now-silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by jloriginal View Post
I have no ems playback. any ideas?
They are deprecated on Calgary Municipal, see the red highlights.

Code:
Alberta Health Services - Calgary Metro EMS Talkgroups 
EMS have switched over to using their new encrypted talkgroups on AFRRCS (Alberta First Responder's Radio Communication System). 

DEC 	HEX 	Mode  	Alpha Tag	Description	Tag  
16400	401	A	A1 Dispatch	A1 - EMS Dispatch 	Deprecated 
16496	407	A	A2 Updates	A2 - EMS Dispatch Updates 	Deprecated 
16560	40b	A	A3 Chat	A3 - EMS Chat 	Deprecated 
16592	40d	A	A4 Chat	A4 - EMS Chat 	Deprecated 
16624	40f	A	A5 SCHC	A5 - South Calgary Health Centre 	Deprecated 
16656	411	A	A6 FMC	A6 - Foothills Medical Centre 	Deprecated 
16720	415	A	A7 PLC	A7 - Peter Lougheed Centre 	Deprecated 
16752	417	A	A8 RGH	A8 - Rockyview General Hospital 	Deprecated 
16784	419	A	A9 ACH	A9 - Alberta Children's Hospital 	Deprecated 
17136	42f	A	B1 Updates	B1 - EMS Updates w/CFD 	Deprecated 
16432	403	A	BKUP DISP	C1 - EMS Backup Dispatch 	Deprecated 
16528	409	A	BKUP UPDATE	C2 - EMS Backup Updates 	Deprecated 
16688	413	A	BKUP PATCH	C3 - Backup Hospital Patch 	Deprecated 
16880	41f	A	BKUP MCI	C4 - EMS Backup MCI Events 	Deprecated 
16464	405	A	BKUP DISP	C5 - EMS Backup Dispatch 	Deprecated 
16912	421	A	A11 MCI	A11 - EMS MCI 	Deprecated 
16848	41d	A	A11 Spare	A11 - EMS Spare 	Deprecated 
16944	423	A	A12 TAC 1	A12 - EMS TAC 1 	Deprecated 
16976	425	A	A13 TAC 2	A13 - EMS TAC 2 	Deprecated 
17008	427	A	A14 TAC 3	A14 - EMS TAC 3 	Deprecated 
17104	42d	A	A15 TAC 4	A15 - EMS TAC 4 	Deprecated 
17232	435	A	CHEARS	Calgary Hospital Emergency Aid Radio System 	Deprecated 
Now on the system below but...

Code:
Calgary Zone - AHS Talkgroups 

DEC 	HEX 	Mode  	Alpha Tag	Description	Tag  
1011	3f3	E	CGY - D1	Calgary Metro Disp 1 	EMS Dispatch 
1012	3f4	E	CGY - D2	Calgary Metro Disp 2 	EMS Dispatch 
1013	3f5	E	CGY - D3	Calgary Rural Disp 3  	EMS Dispatch 
1014	3f6	E	CGY - D4	Calgary Rural Disp 4 	EMS Dispatch 
1015	3f7	E	CGY - D5	Calgary IFT Disp 5 	EMS Dispatch 
1016	3f8	E	CGY - 1016	AHS 1016  	EMS-Talk 
1017	3f9	E	CGY - 1017	AHS 1017 	EMS-Talk 
1019	3fb	E	CGY - T9	Calgary Tac 9 	EMS-Tac 
1020	3fc	E	CGY - T10	Calgary Tac 10

Last edited by mciupa; 12-26-2016 at 4:53 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-26-2016, 6:01 PM
jloriginal's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: calgary alberta canada
Posts: 103
Default ems gone silent

I'm not sure what that means. Ive checked afrrcs and don't see any ems frequencies. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2016, 12:42 AM
robertmac's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,063
Default

What the situation is, they are on AFRRCS and encrypted so no one can listen to what they are doing. Part of AHS/AB government privacy kick.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2016, 10:20 AM
jloriginal's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: calgary alberta canada
Posts: 103
Default

Thank you very much for your help. I wonder if the same thing will eventually happen to CPS & fire
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2016, 7:04 PM
robertmac's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,063
Default

If you read other posts under this category, your will see answers to your questions, even about AHS EMS going encrypted.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2016, 10:59 AM
jloriginal's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: calgary alberta canada
Posts: 103
Default

Thanks again for your help
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2016, 11:06 AM
jloriginal's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: calgary alberta canada
Posts: 103
Default

Surely we will be able to break this ems encryption at some point. I know win500 doesnt work for this now
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2016, 11:26 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the 'patch
Posts: 5,032
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jloriginal View Post
Surely we will be able to break this ems encryption at some point. I know win500 doesnt work for this now


No you won't, and Win500 is not ever going to do it either.
__________________
Interoperatablity is not a technology, it is an attitude!!!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2016, 12:53 PM
maplebear's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North America
Posts: 138
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jloriginal View Post
Surely we will be able to break this ems encryption at some point. I know win500 doesnt work for this now
You need a AFRRCS radio with EMS talk groups and the encryption key in order to hear them.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2016, 1:31 PM
Jay911's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bragg Creek, Alberta
Posts: 8,992
Default

Ok, here's the thing about encryption, to put this to bed once and for all:

Encryption is designed specifically for the purpose of preventing you from hearing something you're not supposed to be hearing.

As such, there are laws in place to make it punishable to "break" encryption.

This can't really be compared to getting a new digital mode enabled in a scanner, because the digital modes aren't intended to keep you from hearing things. (That may be a "side benefit" for some closed-minded agencies, but it's certainly not the primary purpose of a digital mode.)

Saying that you wish someone would break encryption is like saying you wish that somebody would give you a key to unlock a warehouse full of stuff. You might get access to the warehouse very briefly, but you'll get in trouble for it, and all the owners are going to do is change the locks. The same thing would happen with an encrypted transmission if the encryption key ever got released or "broken": The system managers would change to a completely new key in a matter of seconds.

Like it or not, for wise or dumb reasons/excuses, some agencies have enabled encryption on their channels, and it's doubtful it will go away, ever.

Can we please make this the last time we discuss encryption in this thread? RR has rules that encryption is to be discussed only in one thread on the forum: this one.
__________________
--j.
@Jay91150 and @RMESFire | http://www.rmesfire.org
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2016, 1:36 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the 'patch
Posts: 5,032
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay911 View Post
... The same thing would happen with an encrypted transmission if the encryption key ever got released or "broken": The system managers would change to a completely new key in a matter of seconds


To expand on this, if a key is compromised, AFRRCS users have the capability to rekey(Over The Air Rekey, aka OTAR) the radios over the network. As in, the key manager can remotely rekey any/all radio when ever they wish.
__________________
Interoperatablity is not a technology, it is an attitude!!!
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2016, 1:52 PM
jloriginal's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: calgary alberta canada
Posts: 103
Default

My appologies. I'm not very knowledgeable at this stuff. thank you for your help
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2016, 2:37 PM
Jay911's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bragg Creek, Alberta
Posts: 8,992
Default

Not a problem. I didn't mean to come off like an ***, and sorry if I did. It's just that encryption is a dead horse that has been beaten so hard on this website that it is just a pile of glue now.

Personally, I don't agree with the amount of encryption that is being employed in agencies all over this continent. I dispute the argument that general operational channels must be encrypted for personnel safety (despite the conversation I just partook in in the encryption containment thread mentioned above). I am the communications officer for a local public safety agency which prides itself in its relations with the community at large, and you can't maintain that kind of relationship if you are hiding yourself from the community. Not only do we not encrypt our comms, but we stream them on Broadcastify, in an official capacity. We're happy to have people know what we're doing. During a particularly intense incident several years ago, we had friends, family, and general public in Newfoundland, Ontario, and several US states contacting us in near real-time to compliment our incident commander on her and her crews' performance.

Things that we don't want everyone on the planet to be learning about is simply not broadcast on a radio frequency. If we had a reason to regularly transmit private/privileged data and could not do it without using a radio, I would see a benefit for having some encryption - maybe one channel. But definitely not all of it.

I can't speak to AHSEMS's decisions or rational because my (other) job involves doing dispatch for them, and for me to offer comments could be seen as a violation of certain employment policies. But as a public safety person in general, I can admit the benefit to having encryption in some but not all situations in this modern day.
__________________
--j.
@Jay91150 and @RMESFire | http://www.rmesfire.org
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2016, 2:45 PM
jloriginal's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: calgary alberta canada
Posts: 103
Default

Thank you Jay. I just dont know the terminology. I only know that i connect my scanner to win500 and I get to hear stuff. I wont post anything else on here. I think the more i use rr ill understand the rules and where to talk.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2016, 5:49 PM
mciupa's Avatar
Moderator
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,564
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jloriginal View Post
Thank you Jay. I just dont know the terminology. I only know that i connect my scanner to win500 and I get to hear stuff. I wont post anything else on here. I think the more i use rr ill understand the rules and where to talk.
Don't do that, the forums exist so we can exchange ideas and opinions. I only moved the posts to keep the AFRRCS in focus, no need to feel that anything wrong was done.

It was a legitimate question to ask where some of your favourite monitoring has gone to. I would want to know the same as well.

See you on the forums!
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2016, 8:01 PM
Microscan's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 10
Default

jloriginal,
See:
How safe is safe? AES 256 encryption and your data. - Canadian Cloud Backup | Datacentres in Canada

It gives a good plain language overview of what someone would be up against if they tried to break the encryption key. Advanced Encryption Standard 256 bit (AES 256) is the system used by EMS and others such as commercial vehicle enforcement on AFRRCS. Just a matter of time until the RCMP is on board as well.

Don't shy away from participating in the forums, in my experience they're a friendly bunch and a wealth of information.

For what its worth, I agree completely with Jay's views on the amount of encryption.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2016, 8:59 PM
edmscan's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,529
Default

About time that the truth was told on here. It is just sad that the newbies have to learn the hard way.
__________________
Now Retired from Radio Reference
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2018, 9:03 AM
jloriginal's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: calgary alberta canada
Posts: 103
Default Calgary police radio

Have calgary pollice gone to a different system? Havent heard anything for 24 hours
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2018, 9:07 AM
smason's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Alberta Canada, Eh!
Posts: 973
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jloriginal View Post
Have calgary pollice gone to a different system? Havent heard anything for 24 hours
Seems they've moved to encryption, see this thread:
https://forums.radioreference.com/pr...ryption-2.html
__________________
Lots of radios, not enough antennas...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 9:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2015 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions