Apco 25 vs analog

[station32]

Question why do some countys use apco25 over just an analog system. They both do the same thing right? And isnt the analog equiptment cheaper. I was just wondering the pros and cons of both systems and why one is used over the other?
Thanks,
Joe

[fineshot1]

Originally Posted by station32

Question why do some countys use apco25 over just an analog system. They both do the same thing right? And isnt the analog equiptment cheaper. I was just wondering the pros and cons of both systems and why one is used over the other?
Thanks,
Joe

Yes an analog system is cheaper but has less in the way of features such as encryption, short message data transmition, over the air re-programming and re-keying, etc. Many of the older legacy systems are not being supported or support is about to be dropped which is also driving many agencies to purchase the newer digital type systems so logistical support and politics also plays into the selection.

[RKG]

Tailfins.

[station32]

Thanks for the info. Is there going to be a standard for all public saftey agencies will switch to a digital system. Or will they be forced to.

[fineshot1]

Originally Posted by station32

Thanks for the info. Is there going to be a standard for all public saftey agencies will switch to a digital system. Or will they be forced to.

Your welcome and no/no

[DickH]

Originally Posted by fineshot1

Yes an analog system is cheaper but has less in the way of features such as encryption, short message data transmition, over the air re-programming and re-keying, etc. Many of the older legacy systems are not being supported or support is about to be dropped which is also driving many agencies to purchase the newer digital type systems so logistical support and politics also plays into the selection.

You left out aggressive salesmen.

[fineshot1]

Originally Posted by DickH

You left out aggressive salesmen.

I am sorry I left that out - that too is true as I have seen some grossly un-necessary systems or equipment sold to un-suspecting agencies.

[station32]

thanks everyone

[W8RW]

Originally Posted by station32

Thanks for the info. Is there going to be a standard for all public saftey agencies will switch to a digital system. Or will they be forced to.

While they are not being forced to switch to a digital system, they are being forced to use narrow band equipment, whether it is analog or digital. There is a standard, and it is the title of your post. However, Public Safety agencies are not required to follow it. Two pitfalls of the purchasing process for PS radio systems are:
1) A lack of knowledge required to make intelligent decisions
2) A lack of oversight or input by people who are knowledgeable

This is a bad combination that makes people in decision making positions vulnerable to the aggressive sales tactics mentioned by another poster. An example of this is the widespread untruth that purchasing an expensive digital system will provide for interoperability. The big equipment manufacturers have all demonstrated that they are willing to say things like this to sell systems that make them a sole-source provider (wouldn't everyone like this?). So it is up to the purchaser to avoid making irresponsible decisions with tax money. Imagine buying a piece of fire apparatus that required special water only available from special hydrants that happened to be supplied by the same company! Sure, if everyone in the area purchased the special fire apparatus and rights to use the special water, it would all be compatible.

APCO 25 is an attempt to avoid these pitfalls by writing a technical standard and by making it an open standard. The theory is that if an equipment supplier meets APCO 25, much of the technical work has already been done and the purchase of equipment can be done on a competitive basis. It is still no substitute for doing your homework.

[MOTOROLANUT]

Motorola saw a chance to Fleece America after 9/11 and did so....Just like many other companies did with many other must have products...LOL

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by MOTOROLANUT

Motorola saw a chance to Fleece America after 9/11 and did so....Just like many other companies did with many other must have products...LOL

Just goes to show how well you understand that issue.

Check the dates on the start of the narrowbanding regulations and the beginnings of P25.

[slicerwizard]

They were in on it! They knew about 9/11 long before it happened. So they did their prep work a bit early - it's all good if nobody can prove anything, right?

[talviar]

One possible fundamental reason for agencies to switch to APCO 25 digital is a simple one of transport of "audio" accross the system.

What I mean is currently a conventional analog base station/repeater station can and is routinely accessed by either 2 Wire or 4 Wire radio control circuits running from a dispatch position to the radio. This 2W or 4W circuit can be carried via a TELCO Leased Line, as a channel on a T1 Channel bank via TELCO, Microwave, and even RF path.

The problem with this is audio levels between dispatch and base/repeater are sometimes difficult and troublesome to "level" Especially when the base station is connected to a "patch" where multiple base's are connected together to allow agency 1 to talk to agency 2

If the base/repeater is APCO 25 Digital and a digital pathway is established between base/repeater accross any of a number of formats including TCP/IP it can be carried via numerous forms of data circuits including VPN over the public Internet, including private IP backbone on a microwave IP Network Backbone. Audio levels are pretty much transparent as the settings are set at the console and once digitized experiences no loss in the digital transport.

Also, any patching of radio A to Radio B with other APCO 25 Digital radios controlled from the comm center can be merely IP packets or other digital packets from base A to base B and experience no audio loss. (Not real critical when merely two radios are patched but where a patch may cross several radio bases the old analog systems would experience audio degredation)

One of many reasons to switch to APCO 25 Digital.
There are others, although cost on the infrastructure side is more expensive when deploying sites.

Tony

[davidmc36]

Originally Posted by slicerwizard

They were in on it! They knew about 9/11 long before it happened. So they did their prep work a bit early - it's all good if nobody can prove anything, right?

You had me a little worried till I saw the Smiley at the end.

[CowboyG]

Happy Holidays all,
Still somewhat new to scanning and the complexities of trunk versus non-trunk, digital versus analog etc., reading the posts here, question.....will local agencies be switching to all digital and abandoning analog? I'm thinking of purchasing a digital trunk tracker Uniden; but don't want to spend that much if analog systems will still be around...thanks to the FCC demand to tv stations to go all digital.
Any answers/insight will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[Harbinger]

Originally Posted by davidmc36

You had me a little worried till I saw the Smiley at the end.

I was going to loan him my roll of tin foil