P25 Radio Question

[HDMechanic]

I have a kinda wierd question and hope some can help me and maybe explain things to me. The quetion is if sombody bought a VHF radio with P25 would it decrypt encription or is thier a set of numbers that would have to be entered for the system that you would like to hear???

[Comint]

Originally Posted by HDMechanic

. . . or is thier a set of numbers that would have to be entered for the system that you would like to hear???

Short SIMPLE answer: YES.

--
Comint

[N_Jay]

P25 is not in itself encrypted.

A P25 radio properly programmed will 'Decode' (not "Decrypt") a P25 "clear" transmission.

To decrypt an ENCRYPTED transmission require that the radio be equipped with the proper encryption hardware/software, and also have the proper encryption key loaded.

[Jay911]

Here's a comparison that might illustrate things...

Analog is like TV off a rabbit ears antenna. Any TV will pick up analog if you just find a power socket and plug it in. Likewise, any scanner will handle analog.

Digital (P25) is like a TV with a cable box. If you have the right equipment (a cable box hooked up to your TV, or a P25-capable scanner), you can receive the intended signal.

Encryption is like a pay channel you don't subscribe to. You can tune in that channel number, but unless you get the cable company to set up your account with the info that says you paid for that channel, you won't be able to 'decode' the signal and see the channel. In the same vein, you can listen to the drunken R2D2 noises of an encrypted channel as long as you want, but unless you have been given the encryption key (password, essentially), you will not hear (or be able to transmit on) that channel.

[chrismol1]

you need a key that programmed in to allow access to listen, sorta like a password

You cant just buy a P25 and tune it to an encrypted frequency

[SLWilson]

Originally Posted by N_Jay

P25 is not in itself encrypted.

A P25 radio properly programmed will 'Decode' (not "Decrypt") a P25 "clear" transmission.

To decrypt an ENCRYPTED transmission require that the radio be equipped with the proper encryption hardware/software, and also have the proper encryption key loaded.

N_J has it right, AND, that encryption module or whatever Motorola calls it is EXPENSIVE. Our county bought the XTS5000 Moto portables but we couldn't afford the encryptoin package for them.

Getting the Omnilink feature was a requirement for us for the Ohio MARCS system but added about $2,500.oo to each radio! Every feature you add to a MOTO as far as trunked radio adds about that much to the radio.

You start out with a "base model" XTS portable and it isn't too expensive (as far as commercial or public safety radios go) but then start adding everything for the system you need and they end up costing around $4,200 to $5,000 per radio....

Steve/KB8FAR

[RocketNJ]

Encryption modules cost us just under $500 if memory serves me.

Getting someone with the proper keyloader and keys to load the radio is another thing. If you are not an authorized user and obtain a radio with encryption keys to listen without the agency's permission, it is illegal.

[HDMechanic]

Thanks for the help.

[Have_Teeth]

Originally Posted by SLWilson

N_J has it right, AND, that encryption module or whatever Motorola calls it is EXPENSIVE. Our county bought the XTS5000 Moto portables but we couldn't afford the encryptoin package for them.

They cost about $550-650 each, when purchased in bulk. But they routinely sell on eBay for $125-175. XTS3000 and Saber/Spectra modules go for as low as $75/each. But of course, new they'd be much more. The total cost depends on what algorithms you order the module with. If you want a DES-OFB/AES-256 module, you'll pay more. Motorola sells the AES-256 algorithm at a cheaper cost than DES-OFB, even though AES-256 is more powerful. But either way, it's stupid expensive. A module can cost more than $1000 if you order it fully loaded with algorithms you may never even need/use!

Getting the Omnilink feature was a requirement for us for the Ohio MARCS system but added about $2,500.oo to each radio! Every feature you add to a MOTO as far as trunked radio adds about that much to the radio.

Omnilink isn't $2500. It (Q173) sells for about $200-400, depending on who you are and how many flash upgrades you order.

You can actually work deals out with Motorola, if you're buying a lot of stuff. I know of a police agency which got free multikey (16 keys instead of 1) because their order was received late.

[exkalibur]

Originally Posted by SLWilson

N_J has it right, AND, that encryption module or whatever Motorola calls it is EXPENSIVE. Our county bought the XTS5000 Moto portables but we couldn't afford the encryptoin package for them.

Getting the Omnilink feature was a requirement for us for the Ohio MARCS system but added about $2,500.oo to each radio! Every feature you add to a MOTO as far as trunked radio adds about that much to the radio.

You start out with a "base model" XTS portable and it isn't too expensive (as far as commercial or public safety radios go) but then start adding everything for the system you need and they end up costing around $4,200 to $5,000 per radio....

Steve/KB8FAR

Funny, I added Omnilink to my radio for free

On the used market, encryption modules for most common radios can be had pretty cheaply. A friend picked up a module for an XTS for just a hair under $75.

[K8TEK]

Originally Posted by SLWilson

N_J has it right, AND, that encryption module or whatever Motorola calls it is EXPENSIVE. Our county bought the XTS5000 Moto portables but we couldn't afford the encryptoin package for them.

Getting the Omnilink feature was a requirement for us for the Ohio MARCS system but added about $2,500.oo to each radio! Every feature you add to a MOTO as far as trunked radio adds about that much to the radio.

You start out with a "base model" XTS portable and it isn't too expensive (as far as commercial or public safety radios go) but then start adding everything for the system you need and they end up costing around $4,200 to $5,000 per radio....

Steve/KB8FAR

Funny that Q806 cost about that much because Motorola has to pay a licensing fee to DVSI. Smartzone Omnilink is something Motorola invented, so it shouldn't cost $2,500.00

[K8TEK]

I forgot to add, did you buy your radios through the state or did you go to a Motorola dealer? The dealer isn't going to tell you that you can get your radios much cheaper through the state.

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by K8TEK

. . Smartzone Omnilink is something Motorola invented, so it shouldn't cost $2,500.00

And it doesn't. (Ain't that funny how that works?)

[SLWilson]

Originally Posted by K8TEK

I forgot to add, did you buy your radios through the state or did you go to a Motorola dealer? The dealer isn't going to tell you that you can get your radios much cheaper through the state.

We went through the Ohio state purchasing program. But, like I said above....Adding the "features" or "options" you want/need really runs the $$$$ up....

HOWEVER....E.F. Johnson has been "cleared" to sell their equipment for use on MARCS. Soon (as I understand it) Kenwood will too be allowed to sell their stuff for use with Ohio MARCS.

Those companies should drive the MOTO price down some. Johnson radios (with all the features except encryption) are about HALF the proce of a MOTO XTS5000 !!!!

Steve/KB8FAR

[grem467]

Originally Posted by SLWilson

Johnson radios (with all the features except encryption) are about HALF the proce of a MOTO XTS5000 !!!!

Steve/KB8FAR

After playing with some 5100s on our SmartZone, all i can say is i soon discovered the reason they are half the price compared to a XTS5k

[K8TEK]

Originally Posted by grem467

After playing with some 5100s on our SmartZone, all i can say is i soon discovered the reason they are half the price compared to a XTS5k

Like their intermod rejection? Or, perhaps the fact that they just look stupid?

[grem467]

that along with inconsistent radio ID display, and horribly tinny RX audio...

[K8TEK]

I never noticed the radio id thing, Marc.

[grem467]

they were just goofy, when i programmed our S.O. radios, i alias the console IDs to come up like "Zone-1 HQ" etc, well on the EFJ sometimes it would alias, sometimes it wouldnt show an ID at all, and sometimes it would show the numeric ID, even though it was in the call list.