Need advice on Moto handheld with encryption

[marktellez]

Hello all,



I need some advice on two-way radios.



In general, here is what I am looking for:



1. UHF frequency coverage
2. Programmable to cover GMRS frequencies, and amateur band (nice, but not required)
3. AES or DES (or equivalent) encryption
4. Keyboard entry for encryption key ideally (or an easy to find/cheap way of programming)
5. Full keyboard (DMTF)
6. Li-Ion batteries
7. AA Battery option
8. Small size (about size of Icom F21)
9. Water resistant (ideally submersible to 3ft for 30 minutes)
10. Broad selection of after market accessories (inductive headset / microphone )
11. New or used (under $600/radio)



I like Motorola (I have looked at 2500 &3000) for the reputation of rugged reliability, but I don't like the cost, and expensive programming key loaders, and software. Still.... would like to hear from some Motorola users because maybe there are some options that I have not considered.

Thanks

Mark

[fineshot1]

Originally Posted by marktellez

Hello all,

I need some advice on two-way radios.

In general, here is what I am looking for:

1. UHF frequency coverage
2. Programmable to cover GMRS frequencies, and amateur band (nice, but not required)
3. AES or DES (or equivalent) encryption
4. Keyboard entry for encryption key ideally (or an easy to find/cheap way of programming)
5. Full keyboard (DMTF)
6. Li-Ion batteries
7. AA Battery option
8. Small size (about size of Icom F21)
9. Water resistant (ideally submersible to 3ft for 30 minutes)
10. Broad selection of after market accessories (inductive headset / microphone )
11. New or used (under $600/radio)

I like Motorola (I have looked at 2500 &3000) for the reputation of rugged reliability, but I don't like the cost, and expensive programming key loaders, and software. Still.... would like to hear from some Motorola users because maybe there are some options that I have not considered.

Thanks Mark

OK - Here is my input to you:

> 1. UHF frequency coverage
> 2. Programmable to cover GMRS frequencies, and amateur band (nice, but not required)
*Then you are looking for an R split(403-470) XTS2500 or 3000. The 3000 will have to be used.
> 3. AES or DES (or equivalent) encryption
* This is available
> 4. Keyboard entry for encryption key ideally (or an easy to find/cheap way of programming)
* Not possible - KVL3000+ key loader entry only
> 5. Full keyboard (DMTF)
* This is available
> 6. Li-Ion batteries
* This is available
> 7. AA Battery option
* Not sure - may or may not be available - maybe some else's input on this.
> 8. Small size (about size of Icom F21)
* The XTS2500 is probably what you want - its smaller then the XTS3000
> 9. Water resistant (ideally submersible to 3ft for 30 minutes)
* Not sure on this one either - don't think the 2500 or 3000 will comply
> 10. Broad selection of after market accessories (inductive headset / microphone )
* This is available for either the 2500 or 3000
> 11. New or used (under $600/radio)
* You may find a used 3000 for about that but not likely with the 2500.

[kb0zgy]

Try looking at vertex, they are more reasonably priced and may have all the features you are looking for.
I would also consider them very sturdy and smaller sized. As far as finding someone that knows about the radios
you might find a dealer and call them, talk to one of the radio techs to find out the specs.

here try this link
http://www.vertexstandard.com/indexV...4&isArchived=0
or this one
http://www.vertexstandard.com/indexV...4&isArchived=0


Rich

[SkipSanders]

And, of course, note that use of encryption on either GMRS or ham radio is illegal.

[ka8ypy]

Motorola makes a alkaline pack for the XTS-3000/3500/5000, it was originally made for the forrestry service and are predominantly orange (some black ones are available).

To my knowledge, no one offers keyboard loading of encryption of any type, all manufacturers require a keyloader of some sort (again to my knowledge, might get corrected here).

By programmable coverage, do you mean front panel entry? If so, then a 2500 or a 5000 are your options from motorola.

For under $600, not unless someone doesn't know what they have.

Dan
KA8YPY

[N_Jay]

May I ask the stupid question.

What service?

[immelmen]

it is a US govt. requirement that anything they buy must use a separate key-fill device to load encryption keys(direct entry of keys on the radio must NOT be possible). Your odds of finding anything that runs AES that doesn't fit this requirement is nil.

[KS4VT]

And recently manufactured Part 90 Radios, which are being described above, are not type accepted for Part 95 GMRS service.

[loumaag]

Cross posted topics with replies are merged here. Please don't cross post on the site, thanks.

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by KS4VT

And recently manufactured Part 90 Radios, which are being described above, are not type accepted for Part 95 GMRS service.

I have not been following this.
Are manufacturers just not applying for Part 95, or was there some rule change that makes Part 90 equipment n longer suitable for Part95?

[fireandems13669]

Icom F70 P25 radios offer AES and DES however you need a Motorola KVL-3000 to load the key

[marktellez]

Can anyone suggest a knowledgeable radio dealer in Colorado Springs or Central Texas?

Thanks,

Mark

[mancow]

Wow, rules for the sake of profit. Nice.

Originally Posted by KS4VT

And recently manufactured Part 90 Radios, which are being described above, are not type accepted for Part 95 GMRS service.

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by mancow

Wow, rules for the sake of profit. Nice.

Hu??

Where do you get that?

[mancow]

Well, if they are manufactured to specs that are good enough for 90 then why not 95? Is it just to separate services so that the consumer must buy an item specifically designed for that purpose and not be able to use one that works for both?

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by mancow

Well, if they are manufactured to specs that are good enough for 90 then why not 95? Is it just to separate services so that the consumer must buy an item specifically designed for that purpose and not be able to use one that works for both?

Maybe there are slight diffeences in specs?
Maybe no one is buying them for GMRS use and therefore it is not worth the time, effort, and costs to get additional certifications?

That is what I was asking. Jumping to the conclusion " . . .Is it just to separate services so that the consumer must buy an item specifically designed for that purpose . . ." is ridiculous.

But that has never been a good reason not to post here.

[mancow]

Your points are valid and I'm sure I haven't read into it enough so yea it was a knee jerk reaction.

Initially, it just seemed a bit over the top to certify a $5000 XTS5000 for life and death public service work but deny it the certification to operate on MURS.

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by mancow

Your points are valid and I'm sure I haven't read into it enough so yea it was a knee jerk reaction.

Initially, it just seemed a bit over the top to certify a $5000 XTS5000 for life and death public service work but deny it the certification to operate on MURS.

[rant-on]
Mine may have been a bit of a "knee jerk reaction" also, but I am finding on more and more topics people would rather jump to the conclusion, that everything they don't like/understand is some how a purposeful assault on them, the market, the people; by some evil corporation, conspiring group, or such.

This attitude is becoming pervasive and all it seems to do is get in the way of any real attempt or desire to learn about the situation, and breed thoughtless contempt.
[rant-off]

[n1das]

Originally Posted by mancow

Well, if they are manufactured to specs that are good enough for 90 then why not 95? Is it just to separate services so that the consumer must buy an item specifically designed for that purpose and not be able to use one that works for both?

Good Part 90 equipment meets and now exceeds the the technical requirements of Part 95. IIRC, there's nothing in Part 90 that would preclude a radio being able to also have Part 95 in addition to Part 90. A lot of KENWOOD Part 90 gear specifically has Part 95 in addition to Part 90. KENWOOD's lastest NEXEDGE family of NXDN digital radios on UHF have Part 95 in addition to Part 90. This is what I use on GMRS.

OK, so why not 95? <confused> It has to with how the manufacturers choose to market their Part 90 gear. On a radio's type acceptance application with the FCC, the manufacturer checked the box for Part 90 but didn't check the box for Part 95. Exactly why they didn't include Part 95, who knows. I'm glad KENWOOD had the forethought to include Part 95 type acceptance in addition to Part 90 with their latest line of radios (NEXEDGE).

OK, so why is a good Part 90 radio technically illegal on GMRS because it doesn't specifically have Part 95 even though it meets all tech specs? It's because of wording in Part 95 rules that says that GMRS equipment must specifically have Part 95 type acceptance on it. It doesn't say anything about preventing a radio from having Part 95 if it's already type accepted for other radio service(s) (i.e., Part 90). The rule simply says GMRS equipment must specifically have Part 95 type acceptance.

[KS4VT]

Originally Posted by N_Jay

I have not been following this.
Are manufacturers just not applying for Part 95, or was there some rule change that makes Part 90 equipment n longer suitable for Part95?

There was a rule change and only radios that were type accected prior to a certain date, somewhere around 98 I believe, can be utilized in the Part 95 service.

As you know the FRS/GMRS radios have special requirements to include non-removable antennas so just from that requirement a Part 90 Radio doesn't conform to the rules.