Feds pushing Project 25

[brey1234]

Federal Homeland Security officials want every law enforcement agency in the country to have seamless radio communication so when there's an emergency there can be immediate officer-to-officer communication regardless of the agency they work for or the radio equipment they use. Local officials say they are getting the hint.
The key term is interoperability, which means the ability for public safety officials to talk to each other on two-way radio equipment no matter the manufacturer or frequency. In East Texas, most agencies use either a high-band radio frequency or a trunked radio system. Talk between the two systems is impossible without special computer technology or a dispatcher creating a short-term link. Federal officials believe a new equipment standard called Project 25 can improve that, and they're dangling grant money as the carrot to get the rest of the nation to see their vision.
http://www.news-journal.com/news/con...licSafety.html

[hoser147]

Thats pretty well the way it is right now in the country. The Scanner Hound part is very off base. Not sure were they are gettn there info at but we all know better ............Hoser

[DaveNF2G]

Project 25 is hardly "new" any more. Sounds like some reporter just got wind of something and thinks it's news because he hadn't heard about it before. Background research doesn't seem to be part of the journalistic process any more.

[loumaag]

Originally Posted by DaveNF2G

Project 25 is hardly "new" any more. Sounds like some reporter just got wind of something and thinks it's news because he hadn't heard about it before. Background research doesn't seem to be part of the journalistic process any more.

Yep, did you notice that according to this reporter the Gregg Co. SO uses HF to communicate!

[WA4MJF]

I should imangine in State as big as TX, that HF would be needed to communicate
with the State Capitol. Even VHF low band at max allowable power output
would not make it, say from Brownsville to Austin. There are still, last I looked,
some Part 90 HF frequencies for use in situations such as this.

[hoser147]

Guess it will become new again when the average joe isnt gettn anything on his analog scanner .....................Hoser

[loumaag]

Originally Posted by WA4MJF

I should imangine in State as big as TX, that HF would be needed to communicate
with the State Capitol. Even VHF low band at max allowable power output
would not make it, say from Brownsville to Austin. There are still, last I looked,
some Part 90 HF frequencies for use in situations such as this.

I am pretty sure that every state has such allocations, here is an example for TX; but that doesn't change the point that the reporter didn't do background nor did he check his facts. Gregg Co. SO does not use HF to communicate with it's deputies, they do use VHF High Band though.

[Unitrunker]

Originally Posted by loumaag

I am pretty sure that every state has such allocations, here is an example for TX; but that doesn't change the point that the reporter didn't do background nor did he check his facts. Gregg Co. SO does not use HF to communicate with it's deputies, they do use VHF High Band though.

The reporter was quoting Gregg County Sheriff Maxey Cerliano. The article reads "All communities in Gregg County with the exception of Longview use high-band radio communication, he said." Did they correct the article?

[WA4MJF]

According to the link in loumagg's post all the frequencies listed for Gregg
County are high band (150-174 MHz). On that same page there is a link
to Longview and they use UHF. I never saw any reference to HF,
but someone did, thus my comment.

[loumaag]

I must be the only one who reads the entire article when such things are posted, here is the part that I am talking about (note the 4th bullet point):

What does it mean?

— Interoperable: An adjective, pertaining to systems that work together or communicate

— Interoperability: The ability of software and hardware on multiple machines from multiple vendors to communicate

— Project 25: A standard for the manufacturing of interoperable digital two-way wireless communications products

— High band frequency: Radio frequencies that are between 3 MHz and 30 MHz; allows for direct, long-distance communications.

— Trunk: A single transmission channel between two points, which are the switching centers or nodes or both

— Trunked radio system: A radio system used to maximize available capacity in a two-way radio system. Groups of users are given a logical talk group to share for their communications, rather than a dedicated radio frequency. It allows two-way communication for fire departments, police and other municipal services in a city, county or other entity.

— Project 25 Technology Interest Group (PTIG): A group composed of public safety professionals and equipment manufacturers involved in the development and education of Project 25 standards.

[WA4MJF]

As I said earlier, and you pointed out, there are HF frequencies for the
State of TEXas to inter communicate as it is TOOO BBIIGGG for any other
type of RF system with out a BUNCH of expensive repeaters or a microwave system.

So I guess it means to have HF capability. The part that I did not see was
the part about talking to deputies on HF that you mentioned a while back.

HF obviously would be for inter agency use.

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by WA4MJF

As I said earlier, and you pointed out, there are HF frequencies for the
State of TEXas to inter communicate as it is TOOO BBIIGGG for any other
type of RF system with out a BUNCH of expensive repeaters or a microwave system.

So I guess it means to have HF capability. The part that I did not see was
the part about talking to deputies on HF that you mentioned a while back.

HF obviously would be for inter agency use.

Read a bit more carefully and you can clearly see that the reporter was told "High Band" (VHF), and understood it so poorly and did such light research that he/she confused it with High Frequency (HF).

[loumaag]

Originally Posted by N_Jay

Read a bit more carefully and you can clearly see that the reporter was told "High Band" (VHF), and understood it so poorly and did such light research that he/she confused it with High Frequency (HF).

Thanks for someone else seeing the same thing I did.

[WA4MJF]

Well, I had said high band a few posts up and you said HF, oh,
never mind.

[ff-medic]

The Federal Government can say this and say that. "SOME" municipalitys, And Governments do not have the money. Extreme rural areas and small towns do not have the income for a P25 backbone system.

I like the P25 Idea. But mutual aid channels worked before. VHF low band, and High band was all and good before UHF, although trunking does have a purpose.

I can see the grants rolling out now.

Implimenting something that they wil have to pay for down the road.


10-6 !!!

[MOTOROLANUT]

Low Band VHF, High Band VHF and UHF worked before.....Many people forget or didn't know we had nationwide law enforcement mutual aid channels before 911...But Motorola aka Moneyrola...LMAO found a way to make multi Billions of dollars selling the Federal Government P-25 radio...Which I might add we didn't need....LOL...Now Uniden, Radio Shack, and many more companies make money off of you and I selling Digital scanners and accessories to listen to said P-25.....The same can be said for the 2009 Deadline for digital Television.....Gentleman the human eye can only see so much resolution in Pixels
be it TV's or Cameras....Before you buy ask yourself 2 questions...#1 Do I really need it?
#2 Who is making money (getting rich off my hard earned dollars) before you plunk down those dead presidents or the fantastic plastic.....lmmfao

Yes P-25...I won't deny it has some advantages....But I forgot to add this tidbit...It also destroyed the used analog radio market.......enjoy.....

[SuperC]

I have mixed feelings regarding the current changes in communications across the country. I understand the frustration of trying to communicate with surrounding agencies through dispatchers/patches etc. In the seventies, I found it possible through the use of scanners, as long as the information transmitted was not sensitive. As result of those early years, I became interested in scanning, and have been "addicted" ever since then. I love to listen, and especially like being able to avoid traffic tie-ups due to accidents as a result of monitoring. I said all that to say that I understand the need for interoperability, and the need for encryption some times, but do not favor encryption all the time (which is one of the possibilities in any area, including mine). There are alot of reasons for the current push for interoperability, such as rapid communication with surrounding agencies, citizen/ officer safety, monetary gain of vendors etc. I have also found a wealth of information available on local government web sites concerning communication plans, vendors etc. Sometimes you have to dig and go through alot of uninteresting stuff, but in many cases the info is there. What ever you do, keep communicating

[ff-medic]

Originally Posted by MOTOROLANUT

Low Band VHF, High Band VHF and UHF worked before.....Many people forget or didn't know we had nationwide law enforcement mutual aid channels before 911...But Motorola aka Moneyrola...LMAO found a way to make multi Billions of dollars selling the Federal Government P-25 radio...Which I might add we didn't need....LOL...Now Uniden, Radio Shack, and many more companies make money off of you and I selling Digital scanners and accessories to listen to said P-25.....The same can be said for the 2009 Deadline for digital Television.....Gentleman the human eye can only see so much resolution in Pixels
be it TV's or Cameras....Before you buy ask yourself 2 questions...#1 Do I really need it?
#2 Who is making money (getting rich off my hard earned dollars) before you plunk down those dead presidents or the fantastic plastic.....lmmfao

Yes P-25...I won't deny it has some advantages....But I forgot to add this tidbit...It also destroyed the used analog radio market.......enjoy.....

Lowband VHF, crossbanded to Highband VHF. It is the best of both worlds. Low band is great over rough terrain on simplex. I know, I used it on a search mission one night, and got terrific range with incident command.

You cannot take it to heaven with you. But budgeted money has purposes. You can always budget a backbone system, then go to greater lengths from there and improve. A system, with some mobiles to be able to use on a mutual aid call. But ajoining countys who have a mutual aid agreement ( Fire / Law Enforcement ), should have a mutual aid and some tac freqs to use set aside for mutual aid, and/or disasters. Mutual aid freqs is cheaper.


A few radios, intertwined with ajoining agencys, is cheaper than an entire radio system.


10-6

[ElroyJetson]

Even if ALL agencies nationwide were to be on the same band using P25 trunked systems, each system would STILL have its own unique IDs, channels, and other system-specific data.

The fantasy is that you could go anywhere and your radio would work on any system. Well,
that's not reality. It never will be, I think. All they can manage is to make everyone use
systems that are similar enough that a single radio could be programmed to operate on
any given system. IF it's in the right band.

VHF.
UHF.
700 MHz.
800 MHz.

That right there ALONE guarantees that interoperbility will be limited at best. Unless you
want to carry three radios.


There are some solutions to help matters. Omnitronics offers ROIP (Radio over IP) and
audio bridge solutions that will easily integrate into most any type of system and provide
a communications link that doesn't require the customer to buy any more radios to achieve
interoperability. There just needs to be a bridge or ROIP set connected to each customer
involved in the link.


Elroy

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by ElroyJetson

Even if ALL agencies nationwide were to be on the same band using P25 trunked systems, each system would STILL have its own unique IDs, channels, and other system-specific data.

The fantasy is that you could go anywhere and your radio would work on any system. Well,
that's not reality. It never will be, I think. All they can manage is to make everyone use
systems that are similar enough that a single radio could be programmed to operate on
any given system. IF it's in the right band.

VHF.
UHF.
700 MHz.
800 MHz.

That right there ALONE guarantees that interoperability will be limited at best. Unless you
want to carry three radios.


There are some solutions to help matters. Omnitronics offers ROIP (Radio over IP) and
audio bridge solutions that will easily integrate into most any type of system and provide
a communications link that doesn't require the customer to buy any more radios to achieve
interoperability. There just needs to be a bridge or ROIP set connected to each customer
involved in the link.


Elroy

Wow.
I guess you better join the standards group and let them all know they are waisting their time!