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Radio Direction Finding Forum Discussions regarding direction finding and transmitter location

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2010, 2:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fineshot1 View Post
For law enforcement these tracking devices can wind up on many
freqs and most are NOT gps technology based units. They are simple
radio direction finding type units that emit a carrier and some kind of
beep tone. The LEO vehicles have the tracking unit and antennas
(not talking lojack but similar) mounted in them.

They can be on just about any vhf-hi or uhf freq. Difficult to predict.

I am not saying there are no gps technology based tracking units out
there but they are not commonly used due to the difficulty in miniaturizing
this technology to the point it is small enough to not be noticeable to the
person being tracked and the fact that the tracking unit needs to be mounted
in such a place to see the sky to catch all the gps satellite signals.
Sorry, but your info is waaay outdated!

"Pinging" cellphones is the easiest way because it's passive. Covert device placed on the car is the other way. Device either just uses GPS to capture the movements of the vehicle until it's retrieved & the data is downloaded, or for real-time tracking it uses GPS/dead-reckoning for location fixes & then transmits that info out over the PCS/GSM mobile phone network to be processed & viewed on a computer display. Nice thing about that is you can get an alert whenever the vehicle starts moving, instead of having to have agents in the field watching the vehicle/monitoring the old-fashioned 'bumper-beeper.' You can also use the software to set up a 'geo-fence' so you get alerted if the target vehicle gets close to certain locations, etc. Modern GPS engines often don't need a direct view of several satellites for a good 3-D fix (& haven't for about a decade), though yes, there can be a loss of a signal in an underground parking structure or concrete canyon.

The modern bumper-beepers devices & various bait-packs are often found in spectrum which necessitates fairly large & obvious (or at least unusual) TDOA antennas arrays or a directional antenna & ideally a couple units for triangulation,so it's a little harder to be covert about it. Even if you've got a nicely decked-out surveillance van with disguised antennas, you have to ensure that the emitter is going to have a low probability of detection & not come thru the target's cheap car stereo system or be detected by the Close Call function of the scanner he just got.


In most cases, it's more cost-effective, accurate & safer to just ping a phone or infiltrate a GPS/PCS or GSM-based device & then remove it when you're done.
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Old 04-29-2010, 9:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by questnz View Post
You can buy of one the shelf
Techwisetech Co Ltd.
GSP Jammer


Wheres the fun in that?
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Hooligan View Post
Sorry, but your info is waaay outdated!

"Pinging" cellphones is the easiest way because it's passive. Covert device placed on the car is the other way. Device either just uses GPS to capture the movements of the vehicle until it's retrieved & the data is downloaded, or for real-time tracking it uses GPS/dead-reckoning for location fixes & then transmits that info out over the PCS/GSM mobile phone network to be processed & viewed on a computer display. Nice thing about that is you can get an alert whenever the vehicle starts moving, instead of having to have agents in the field watching the vehicle/monitoring the old-fashioned 'bumper-beeper.' You can also use the software to set up a 'geo-fence' so you get alerted if the target vehicle gets close to certain locations, etc. Modern GPS engines often don't need a direct view of several satellites for a good 3-D fix (& haven't for about a decade), though yes, there can be a loss of a signal in an underground parking structure or concrete canyon.

The modern bumper-beepers devices & various bait-packs are often found in spectrum which necessitates fairly large & obvious (or at least unusual) TDOA antennas arrays or a directional antenna & ideally a couple units for triangulation,so it's a little harder to be covert about it. Even if you've got a nicely decked-out surveillance van with disguised antennas, you have to ensure that the emitter is going to have a low probability of detection & not come thru the target's cheap car stereo system or be detected by the Close Call function of the scanner he just got.


In most cases, it's more cost-effective, accurate & safer to just ping a phone or infiltrate a GPS/PCS or GSM-based device & then remove it when you're done.
OK - Lets see now - I worked in the cellular industry for 7 years. Please explain to me
exactly how you go about "pinging a cell phone". When I left in 2000 they were just
starting to test the new CALEA platforms and even they required a court order for
any type of monitoring of voice or data in any manner.
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fineshot1 View Post
OK - Lets see now - I worked in the cellular industry for 7 years. Please explain to me
exactly how you go about "pinging a cell phone". When I left in 2000 they were just
starting to test the new CALEA platforms and even they required a court order for
any type of monitoring of voice or data in any manner.
"Pinging" cell-phones is a pretty well-known capability used to determine its location. In the old days, it was a somewhat high-tech capability that mostly the feds used, but these days it's fairly standard operating procedure for local law enforcement to do with missing persons as well as criminal suspects, and the industry plus courts have streamlined the process to where it can be done quickly & easily.
Anyone that monitors federal, state & local law enforcement comms these days, or watches some of the law-enforcement investigations TV shows (like 'The First 48'), or reads a newspaper on a regular basis should be familiar with "pinging" to determine the exact or approximate location of a cellphone in near-real time. The fact that you're apparently ignorant of all this is a sad surprise, but I have no desire to try to educate you on something that's really pretty basic.

Educate yourself via Google. Plenty of reputable references to "cell phone +ping" there.
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Old 05-01-2010, 8:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooligan View Post
"Pinging" cell-phones is a pretty well-known capability used to determine its location. In the old days, it was a somewhat high-tech capability that mostly the feds used, but these days it's fairly standard operating procedure for local law enforcement to do with missing persons as well as criminal suspects, and the industry plus courts have streamlined the process to where it can be done quickly & easily.
Anyone that monitors federal, state & local law enforcement comms these days, or watches some of the law-enforcement investigations TV shows (like 'The First 48'), or reads a newspaper on a regular basis should be familiar with "pinging" to determine the exact or approximate location of a cellphone in near-real time. The fact that you're apparently ignorant of all this is a sad surprise, but I have no desire to try to educate you on something that's really pretty basic.

Educate yourself via Google. Plenty of reputable references to "cell phone +ping" there.
Well your attitude to my simple question is quite arrogant and ignorant in itself. I asked because
I was not current with the technology being that I left the industry in 2000. Just to let you know -
I was in the position that the feds & locals called during these incidents when they were
searching for a target(that's what they called them), and up until 2000 there was no ping feature
in the network to locate a cellular phone. This is in reference to Lucent and Motorola cellular network
infrastructure. The methods used "back in the old days" were AMA search's and Traces(for data) which were search functions on the Lucent and Motorola cellular switch's themselves. Also used were wire taps
for voice reception(yes - at the switch level it could be wire tapped). Now they use the CALEA platforms
which I am sure have both voice and data capture features. I looked up cell phone pings on snopes and
you can "educate" yourself on that below. It seems this ping thing is not all its cracked up to be and
is still a calculation done to estimate a cell phones location which can be anywhere from 0 - 300 meters
away from the actual phone. So it will not provide a 100% accurate "address" location if that is what
is needed in a dense urban environment.

snopes.com: Cell Phone Location Feature
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Old 05-01-2010, 8:15 PM
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Originally Posted by fineshot1 View Post
Well your attitude to my simple question is quite arrogant and ignorant in itself. I asked because
I was not current with the technology being that I left the industry in 2000.
The creed I live by is Better a smart-*** than a dumb-***.

If you exited the business 10 years ago, then perhaps you shouldn't have made your initial post that made it seem like you had current, factual knowledge.
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Old 05-02-2010, 2:19 PM
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You can do a lot more to a cell phone than just "ping" it.

Also, "selective E911" comes to mind...

The cell phone has been used as a great tool for law enforcement. Many criminals (including the mob) think it's a perfect safe little gadget. Like pagers just twenty years ago. Rest assured that when you think of that famous phrase, "keep you enemy's close but your friends closer", it's actually the cell phone.

"This is OnStar, How may I rat on you".

Oh yeah. Send a lot of IMs or use voice mail? It's stored longer than sperm.
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Last edited by poltergeisty; 05-02-2010 at 2:24 PM.. Reason: Too many edits. Too much Starbucks!
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Old 05-03-2010, 8:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poltergeisty View Post
Oh yeah. Send a lot of IMs or use voice mail? It's stored longer than sperm.
That's why i have one of these: http://www.spyville.com/spy-finder.html . And I keep my hit man deals in person.
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Last edited by dracer777; 05-03-2010 at 8:35 PM..
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Old 05-03-2010, 9:01 PM
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Wow $18,000 for a bug and camera detector? Seems a little steep to me.
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Old 05-04-2010, 10:52 AM
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HUH??? Not too sure what a camera detector has to do with IM's and VM....

BTW- I had bought one and they're bogus.
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:32 PM
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The link is the comment I "commented" on, took me to a site that has spy tech detectors...
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Old 05-06-2010, 7:55 PM
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Here's an old, but related article.

GPS Jamming

Not too sure if jamming means anything now for military applications sense they use a narrower signal. Do I have this right?

Commercial need not worry either. Laser precision gyros and two to three FMC's (Flight Management Computers) means you have redundancy. Unless you fly for NW and don't pay attention the the ND!

Here's something more recent. Read the editors note! Car Thieves Use GPS Jammers to Make Clean Getaway | Gadget Lab | Wired.com
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Last edited by poltergeisty; 05-06-2010 at 8:00 PM..
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Old 05-06-2010, 8:37 PM
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Interesting topic, there's been research proposals for wideband GPS that uses anti-jamming preprocessors. However, from my experience there's advanced passive tracking technology using SIGINT-like satellites that can track the target vehicle from space using real-time multispectral analytics! It depends on the agency and budget. By then, it's probably a deadman walking.

Jose Miguel
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:47 AM
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Thumbs up FBI tracking device FOUND...funny

Here is a 2 part article of a recent FBI GPS tracking device found on a American citizen's car..funny. Posted on Gizmodo.com a great site.


PART 1:
Want to Know if the FBI Is Tracking You? Look for One of These


PART 2
: FBI Gets Caught Tracking Man's Car, Wants Its GPS Device Back
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Old 10-08-2010, 1:22 AM
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That article reads as if it's something unique and rare.
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Old 10-08-2010, 3:49 PM
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To me, the device looks more like a telemetry transceiver designed to connect to a pipe bomb. I'm surprised EOD wasn't called in to remove it and attempt to detonate. Oil change guys are fearless dudes.
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Old 10-09-2010, 3:44 AM
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Who cares.
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Old 02-24-2011, 10:59 PM
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if you think your being tracked by gps or bumper beepers:
1) get a good freq counter (needs to pick up analog, digital, and ss)
2) locate the transmitter
2) put the transmitter on someone elses car
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Old 02-24-2011, 11:46 PM
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Hey has anybody ever had an direct expirience with the Zoombak product sold at Radio Shack for $99 ?
Zoombak Personal GPS Locators, Portable GPS Tracker, GPS Vehicle Tracking, Family Car GPS Tracking, Pet GPS Tracking, Personal GPS Tracking Systems I understand that there is a one year contract at about $9.99 to $14.99 a month
that offers unlimited tracks and the ability to have the unit text you when it has moved outside a predetermined area. I also understand that it uses the T-Mobile GSM backbone to relay GPS info...
I just had a 1999 GMC 4WD Suburban stolen and ouch !!! You talk about a tough thing to deal with
So in addition to an alarm which I had with ignition kill, I will have a bar always inplace when parked from the floor to the brake petal so that the vehicle cannot be stopped or shifted, not the poor stearing wheel clubs that a simple stearing wheel cutter can bypass. Also GPS tracking is a must for me now !
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Old 02-26-2011, 6:27 PM
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i work in used car dealer and we put gps in the custormers cars with bad credit. if they dont want their debt we hit a buttin that kills the ignition, turn on the gps and go get the car. the bank gives them to us so i dont know who makes them, i mean i could probably find out if you can wait till monday. they are pain to put in the *** to put in, especally in cars that have complicated electrical systems.
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