Pro-96 & 700MHz Trunking

[loumaag]

It has been my understanding that the Pro-96 would not be capable of trunk-tracking in the new 700MHz Pub Safety band. This is based an explanation of the "valid voice frequency" lookup tables in the radio, as explained in the past by Don Starr.

In a discussion of the BCD396T's ability in this regard (on the BCD396T Yahoo Group) a user from Colorado claims his Pro-96 is in fact trunk-tracking the new 700 CC's just coming on line there. His claim is that any Pro-96 with a firmware version 1.2 or above will do it. :shock:

I was wondering if Don, or anyone else very familiar with the firmware and capabilites could comment on this. :?

 

[Voyager]

It has been my understanding that the Pro-96 would not be capable of trunk-tracking in the new 700MHz Pub Safety band. This is based an explanation of the "valid voice frequency" lookup tables in the radio, as explained in the past by Don Starr.

In a discussion of the BCD396T's ability in this regard (on the BCD396T Yahoo Group) a user from Colorado claims his Pro-96 is in fact trunk-tracking the new 700 CC's just coming on line there. His claim is that any Pro-96 with a firmware version 1.2 or above will do it. :shock:

I was wondering if Don, or anyone else very familiar with the firmware and capabilites could comment on this. :?

Actually, Lou, my 'take' on the 1.2 comment was that you need DSP 1.2 which happens to come with CPU 1.2, 1.3, or 1.4 units. He did mention about older ones being upgradable to it, and it does make sense since they are probably using a CQPSK system.

Joe M.

 

[loumaag]

Actually, Lou, my 'take' on the 1.2 comment was that you need DSP 1.2 which happens to come with CPU 1.2, 1.3, or 1.4 units. He did mention about older ones being upgradable to it, and it does make sense since they are probably using a CQPSK system.

Yeah, but Joe, the DSP has nothing to do with the tables of lookups previously refered to by Don.

See this post from last September.

 

[RF-Intel]

It has been my understanding that the Pro-96 would not be capable of trunk-tracking in the new 700MHz Pub Safety band. This is based an explanation of the "valid voice frequency" lookup tables in the radio, as explained in the past by Don Starr.

In a discussion of the BCD396T's ability in this regard (on the BCD396T Yahoo Group) a user from Colorado claims his Pro-96 is in fact trunk-tracking the new 700 CC's just coming on line there. His claim is that any Pro-96 with a firmware version 1.2 or above will do it. :shock:

I was wondering if Don, or anyone else very familiar with the firmware and capabilites could comment on this. :?

Lou,

After he responded to me with this claim on the 396 list, I retested it to be certain.

Using a 1.3,1.2,1.1 radio:
Will show tower information for for the 700 control channel.
Will decode audio of 700 voice channels.
Will not decode control channel and track TG IDs.

The same case for 800 control channels with 700 voice channels. The radio will accurately track and IDs on 800 VCs, but no IDs on 700 VCs.

Meanwhile, a 396 was piping the audio out loud and clear.

This was tested both with the Pro-96's default 9600 tables, and custom Extended Tables matching the tables provided over the air.

-Mark

 

[loumaag]

Thanks Mark, based on the quality of other posts by that guy, I suspected as much.

 

[DonS]

Will show tower information for for the 700 control channel.
Will decode audio of 700 voice channels.
Will not decode control channel and track TG IDs.

Sounds like what I described in the above-linked post. After calculating the voice frequency, the radio won't tune to it because it fails the range checks.

The CC decoding is before those checks, so you'll see tower info.

You should be able to monitor 700 voice frequencies in conventional (non-trunked) mode, if "extended frequencies" are enabled.

 

[Voyager]

Actually, Lou, my 'take' on the 1.2 comment was that you need DSP 1.2 which happens to come with CPU 1.2, 1.3, or 1.4 units. He did mention about older ones being upgradable to it, and it does make sense since they are probably using a CQPSK system.

Yeah, but Joe, the DSP has nothing to do with the tables of lookups previously refered to by Don.

OK, let me put it another way. I think any 700 MHz systems are CQPSK, so you would in fact need DSP 1.2 to do anything with them. Sicne DSP 1.2 came 'with' CPU 1.2, 1,3, and 1.4, having those CPU versions means you would be able to do CQPSK. Having CPU 1.1, you may or may not be able to do the CQPSK, hence you may or may not be able to do anything with anything on 700 MHz. (but it could be made to work with the user DSP upgrade).

Again, this has nothing to do with tracking, but you need the upgraded DSP to be able to see the CQPSK control channel.

Joe M.

 

[rdale]

So recent reports that the Pro96 works on 700MHz are not quite true after all?

 

[loumaag]

Again, this has nothing to do with tracking, but you need the upgraded DSP to be able to see the CQPSK control channel.

Okay, I see what you mean. Yes I agree.

So recent reports that the Pro96 works on 700MHz are not quite true after all?

Well it does work, conventionally and it can report the APCO-9600 CC data via Pro96Com software; but it can not trunk track a system. Basically what it has always done; in other words: Much ado about nothing.

 

[Voyager]

Again, this has nothing to do with tracking, but you need the upgraded DSP to be able to see the CQPSK control channel.

Okay, I see what you mean. Yes I agree.

So recent reports that the Pro96 works on 700MHz are not quite true after all?

Well it does work, conventionally and it can report the APCO-9600 CC data via Pro96Com software; but it can not trunk track a system. Basically what it has always done; in other words: Much ado about nothing.

I wonder if it will work if you have a 700 MHz control channel and the voice channels are all on 800 MHz. I bet it would. 8)

Joe M.

 

[loumaag]

I wonder if it will work if you have a 700 MHz control channel and the voice channels are all on 800 MHz. I bet it would. 8)

Based on Don's description of how it works it might. Note he says that he couldn't remember, "Based on the control channel's frequency (or the base frequency - I forget)..."; so I guess it would depend on what it is based on.

Don, if you read this, could you maybe look into it in your spare time? :shock:

 

[DonS]

I wonder if it will work if you have a 700 MHz control channel and the voice channels are all on 800 MHz. I bet it would. 8)

Based on Don's description of how it works it might. Note he says that he couldn't remember, "Based on the control channel's frequency (or the base frequency - I forget)..."; so I guess it would depend on what it is based on.

Don, if you read this, could you maybe look into it in your spare time? :shock:

The voice frequency validation is based on the final, calculated voice frequency, without regard to the control channel frequency.

The calculation (i.e. which table it uses) is based on the control channel. I don't know what it will choose (if anything) for a 700 MHz CC. You'd probably have to use custom table(s), with 800 MHz bases.

This should be easy enough to verify, if you have a 700 MHz system. Enter the CCs, set to Multi-Table, enter the tables (using 800 MHz base frequencies). When the scanner stops on a transmission, look at the voice frequency displayed - if there is one. If it displays a freq (with "VC"), it should be in the 800 MHz range - based on your Multi-Table entries.

-Don

 

[loumaag]

:lol:
Hopefully someone with a 700MHz CC can try that. I barely have any 800MHz systems in my area (2 total & one is an EDACS) to check anything on.

How I long for civilization again.

 

[rescue161]

:lol:
Hopefully someone with a 700MHz CC can try that. I barely have any 800MHz systems in my area (2 total & one is an EDACS) to check anything on.

How I long for civilization again.

You're better off than me. I have ZERO trunked systems here, unless you count the ships that pull in from time to time. Most of those are UHF lower (380-400 MHz) which the Pro-96 won't track.

I am so ready to get back to the states...

 

[DonS]

I am so ready to get back to the states...

That's what Lou said, though he used the synonym "civilization"

 

[rescue161]

At least he is in the states. Spain is a LONG way from there and I miss just hearing people speak English.

 

[n4voxgill]

At least he is in the states. Spain is a LONG way from there and I miss just hearing people speak English.

So do I and I live in San Antonio. We don't have to worry about our border, in two years there will be no Mexicans left in Mexico.

 

[loumaag]

At least he is in the states. Spain is a LONG way from there and I miss just hearing people speak English.

This may get me in trouble but...
Take a look at a US map. Sisseton is in the NE corner of SD.
Fargo, ND is 90 odd miles north.
Now,... have you ever seen the movie Fargo? :roll:

 

[tj775]

The voice frequency validation is based on the final, calculated voice frequency, without regard to the control channel frequency.

The calculation (i.e. which table it uses) is based on the control channel. I don't know what it will choose (if anything) for a 700 MHz CC. You'd probably have to use custom table(s), with 800 MHz bases.

This should be easy enough to verify, if you have a 700 MHz system. Enter the CCs, set to Multi-Table, enter the tables (using 800 MHz base frequencies). When the scanner stops on a transmission, look at the voice frequency displayed - if there is one. If it displays a freq (with "VC"), it should be in the 800 MHz range - based on your Multi-Table entries.

-Don

Anyone have any thoughts on later firmware from RS or someone else that would remove the voice frequency validation check or update it to include the 700 MHz band?

 

[Nasby]

Just Curious. I read a couple of posts here from PRO-96 owners who say they have few or no trunked sytems in their area. Then why would they pay $500.00 for a digital truning radio? I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I'm just curious about the attarction of the PRO-96.
Paul