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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2005, 12:51 AM
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Default Pro-96 & 700MHz Trunking

It has been my understanding that the Pro-96 would not be capable of trunk-tracking in the new 700MHz Pub Safety band. This is based an explanation of the "valid voice frequency" lookup tables in the radio, as explained in the past by Don Starr.

In a discussion of the BCD396T's ability in this regard (on the BCD396T Yahoo Group) a user from Colorado claims his Pro-96 is in fact trunk-tracking the new 700 CC's just coming on line there. His claim is that any Pro-96 with a firmware version 1.2 or above will do it. :shock:

I was wondering if Don, or anyone else very familiar with the firmware and capabilites could comment on this. :?
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Old 07-08-2005, 3:53 AM
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Default Re: Pro-96 & 700MHz Trunking

Quote:
Originally Posted by loumaag
It has been my understanding that the Pro-96 would not be capable of trunk-tracking in the new 700MHz Pub Safety band. This is based an explanation of the "valid voice frequency" lookup tables in the radio, as explained in the past by Don Starr.

In a discussion of the BCD396T's ability in this regard (on the BCD396T Yahoo Group) a user from Colorado claims his Pro-96 is in fact trunk-tracking the new 700 CC's just coming on line there. His claim is that any Pro-96 with a firmware version 1.2 or above will do it. :shock:

I was wondering if Don, or anyone else very familiar with the firmware and capabilites could comment on this. :?
Actually, Lou, my 'take' on the 1.2 comment was that you need DSP 1.2 which happens to come with CPU 1.2, 1.3, or 1.4 units. He did mention about older ones being upgradable to it, and it does make sense since they are probably using a CQPSK system.

Joe M.
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Old 07-08-2005, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: Pro-96 & 700MHz Trunking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
Actually, Lou, my 'take' on the 1.2 comment was that you need DSP 1.2 which happens to come with CPU 1.2, 1.3, or 1.4 units. He did mention about older ones being upgradable to it, and it does make sense since they are probably using a CQPSK system.
Yeah, but Joe, the DSP has nothing to do with the tables of lookups previously refered to by Don.

See this post from last September.
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Old 07-08-2005, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: Pro-96 & 700MHz Trunking

Quote:
Originally Posted by loumaag
It has been my understanding that the Pro-96 would not be capable of trunk-tracking in the new 700MHz Pub Safety band. This is based an explanation of the "valid voice frequency" lookup tables in the radio, as explained in the past by Don Starr.

In a discussion of the BCD396T's ability in this regard (on the BCD396T Yahoo Group) a user from Colorado claims his Pro-96 is in fact trunk-tracking the new 700 CC's just coming on line there. His claim is that any Pro-96 with a firmware version 1.2 or above will do it. :shock:

I was wondering if Don, or anyone else very familiar with the firmware and capabilites could comment on this. :?

Lou,

After he responded to me with this claim on the 396 list, I retested it to be certain.

Using a 1.3,1.2,1.1 radio:
Will show tower information for for the 700 control channel.
Will decode audio of 700 voice channels.
Will not decode control channel and track TG IDs.

The same case for 800 control channels with 700 voice channels. The radio will accurately track and IDs on 800 VCs, but no IDs on 700 VCs.

Meanwhile, a 396 was piping the audio out loud and clear.

This was tested both with the Pro-96's default 9600 tables, and custom Extended Tables matching the tables provided over the air.

-Mark
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Old 07-08-2005, 10:26 AM
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Thanks Mark, based on the quality of other posts by that guy, I suspected as much.
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Old 07-08-2005, 10:34 AM
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Default Re: Pro-96 & 700MHz Trunking

Quote:
Originally Posted by RF-Intel
Will show tower information for for the 700 control channel.
Will decode audio of 700 voice channels.
Will not decode control channel and track TG IDs.
Sounds like what I described in the above-linked post. After calculating the voice frequency, the radio won't tune to it because it fails the range checks.

The CC decoding is before those checks, so you'll see tower info.

You should be able to monitor 700 voice frequencies in conventional (non-trunked) mode, if "extended frequencies" are enabled.
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Old 07-08-2005, 6:48 PM
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Default Re: Pro-96 & 700MHz Trunking

Quote:
Originally Posted by loumaag
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
Actually, Lou, my 'take' on the 1.2 comment was that you need DSP 1.2 which happens to come with CPU 1.2, 1.3, or 1.4 units. He did mention about older ones being upgradable to it, and it does make sense since they are probably using a CQPSK system.
Yeah, but Joe, the DSP has nothing to do with the tables of lookups previously refered to by Don.
OK, let me put it another way. I think any 700 MHz systems are CQPSK, so you would in fact need DSP 1.2 to do anything with them. Sicne DSP 1.2 came 'with' CPU 1.2, 1,3, and 1.4, having those CPU versions means you would be able to do CQPSK. Having CPU 1.1, you may or may not be able to do the CQPSK, hence you may or may not be able to do anything with anything on 700 MHz. (but it could be made to work with the user DSP upgrade).

Again, this has nothing to do with tracking, but you need the upgraded DSP to be able to see the CQPSK control channel.

Joe M.
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Old 07-08-2005, 6:54 PM
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So recent reports that the Pro96 works on 700MHz are not quite true after all?
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Old 07-08-2005, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: Pro-96 & 700MHz Trunking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
Again, this has nothing to do with tracking, but you need the upgraded DSP to be able to see the CQPSK control channel.
Okay, I see what you mean. Yes I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdale
So recent reports that the Pro96 works on 700MHz are not quite true after all?
Well it does work, conventionally and it can report the APCO-9600 CC data via Pro96Com software; but it can not trunk track a system. Basically what it has always done; in other words: Much ado about nothing.
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Old 07-09-2005, 2:30 AM
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Default Re: Pro-96 & 700MHz Trunking

Quote:
Originally Posted by loumaag
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
Again, this has nothing to do with tracking, but you need the upgraded DSP to be able to see the CQPSK control channel.
Okay, I see what you mean. Yes I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdale
So recent reports that the Pro96 works on 700MHz are not quite true after all?
Well it does work, conventionally and it can report the APCO-9600 CC data via Pro96Com software; but it can not trunk track a system. Basically what it has always done; in other words: Much ado about nothing.
I wonder if it will work if you have a 700 MHz control channel and the voice channels are all on 800 MHz. I bet it would. 8)

Joe M.
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Old 07-09-2005, 11:48 AM
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Default Re: Pro-96 & 700MHz Trunking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
I wonder if it will work if you have a 700 MHz control channel and the voice channels are all on 800 MHz. I bet it would. 8)
Based on Don's description of how it works it might. Note he says that he couldn't remember, "Based on the control channel's frequency (or the base frequency - I forget)..."; so I guess it would depend on what it is based on.

Don, if you read this, could you maybe look into it in your spare time? :shock:
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Old 07-09-2005, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: Pro-96 & 700MHz Trunking

Quote:
Originally Posted by loumaag
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
I wonder if it will work if you have a 700 MHz control channel and the voice channels are all on 800 MHz. I bet it would. 8)
Based on Don's description of how it works it might. Note he says that he couldn't remember, "Based on the control channel's frequency (or the base frequency - I forget)..."; so I guess it would depend on what it is based on.

Don, if you read this, could you maybe look into it in your spare time? :shock:
The voice frequency validation is based on the final, calculated voice frequency, without regard to the control channel frequency.

The calculation (i.e. which table it uses) is based on the control channel. I don't know what it will choose (if anything) for a 700 MHz CC. You'd probably have to use custom table(s), with 800 MHz bases.

This should be easy enough to verify, if you have a 700 MHz system. Enter the CCs, set to Multi-Table, enter the tables (using 800 MHz base frequencies). When the scanner stops on a transmission, look at the voice frequency displayed - if there is one. If it displays a freq (with "VC"), it should be in the 800 MHz range - based on your Multi-Table entries.

-Don
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Old 07-09-2005, 12:10 PM
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Hopefully someone with a 700MHz CC can try that. I barely have any 800MHz systems in my area (2 total & one is an EDACS) to check anything on.

How I long for civilization again.
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Old 07-09-2005, 2:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loumaag

Hopefully someone with a 700MHz CC can try that. I barely have any 800MHz systems in my area (2 total & one is an EDACS) to check anything on.

How I long for civilization again.
You're better off than me. I have ZERO trunked systems here, unless you count the ships that pull in from time to time. Most of those are UHF lower (380-400 MHz) which the Pro-96 won't track.

I am so ready to get back to the states...
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Old 07-09-2005, 2:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rescue161
I am so ready to get back to the states...
That's what Lou said, though he used the synonym "civilization"
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Old 07-09-2005, 2:52 PM
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At least he is in the states. Spain is a LONG way from there and I miss just hearing people speak English.
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Old 07-09-2005, 3:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rescue161
At least he is in the states. Spain is a LONG way from there and I miss just hearing people speak English.
So do I and I live in San Antonio. We don't have to worry about our border, in two years there will be no Mexicans left in Mexico.
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Old 07-09-2005, 5:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rescue161
At least he is in the states. Spain is a LONG way from there and I miss just hearing people speak English.
This may get me in trouble but...
Take a look at a US map. Sisseton is in the NE corner of SD.
Fargo, ND is 90 odd miles north.
Now,... have you ever seen the movie Fargo?
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Old 11-15-2006, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: Pro-96 & 700MHz Trunking

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonS
The voice frequency validation is based on the final, calculated voice frequency, without regard to the control channel frequency.

The calculation (i.e. which table it uses) is based on the control channel. I don't know what it will choose (if anything) for a 700 MHz CC. You'd probably have to use custom table(s), with 800 MHz bases.

This should be easy enough to verify, if you have a 700 MHz system. Enter the CCs, set to Multi-Table, enter the tables (using 800 MHz base frequencies). When the scanner stops on a transmission, look at the voice frequency displayed - if there is one. If it displays a freq (with "VC"), it should be in the 800 MHz range - based on your Multi-Table entries.

-Don
Anyone have any thoughts on later firmware from RS or someone else that would remove the voice frequency validation check or update it to include the 700 MHz band?
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Old 11-15-2006, 7:55 AM
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Just Curious. I read a couple of posts here from PRO-96 owners who say they have few or no trunked sytems in their area. Then why would they pay $500.00 for a digital truning radio? I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I'm just curious about the attarction of the PRO-96.
Paul
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