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Old 02-06-2012, 4:40 AM
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Default APCO 25 phase II and PRO 197

Can someone help me understand exactly how phase II APCO 25 will be different from phase one, and will the 197 decode it?
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Old 02-06-2012, 5:40 AM
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Project 25 Phases
Both formats are 4800 symbols per second - where each symbol encodes two bits of data for a raw bit rate of 9600 bps.

Project 25 Phase I FDMA
Phase I FDMA consists of a C4FM modulated signal that fits in a 12.5 kHz wide channel or a CQPSK modulated signal that fits in a 6.25 kHz channel. Motorola has established an additional de-facto standard for simulcast with a Phase I compatible variation called LSM. LSM is a CQPSK modulated 12.5 kHz wide signal.

Motorola X2-TDMA
Prior to the final Phase II standard being approved, Motorola developed and implemented their own TDMA protocol known as "X2-TDMA". X2-TDMA was implemented on the following systems:

Prince George's County MD Project 25 System
Loudoun County VA Project 25 System
Apopka County FL Project 25 System
Project 25 Phase II TDMA
The Phase II standard is a 2-slot TDMA signal that fits inside a 12.5 kHz wide channel. This allows existing 12.5 kHz wide license holders to double call capacity by upgrading their infrastructure to Phase II. The Phase II standard was approved in November 2010 [1], and as of August 2011 Motorola has begun shipping Phase II systems [2] [3].

These systems can operate in a mixed-mode configuration of Phase I FDMA and Phase II TDMA. If a Phase I only capable radio affiliates with a Phase II talkgroup, these systems are configured to automatically use Phase I modulation on the frequency.

Scanner Support for Motorola X2-TDMA and P25 Phase II TDMA
Motorola's X2-TDMA protocol can be decoded with the GRE PSR-800 EZ-Scan Digital Scanner. The PSR-800 is currently the only scanner model with the hardware to support any form of TDMA decoding (as of August 14th 2011).

On August 13th 2011, GRE stated that the PSR-800's support for P25 Phase II TDMA cannot be confirmed until it is tested live on a system that uses the final Phase II TDMA standard.

On December 18, 2011, a PSR-800 user confirmed that the PSR-800 cannot currently decode P25 Phase II TDMA (only X2-TDMA).

Uniden has confirmed that none of their current models support TDMA in any form, nor do they have the requisite hardware to do so, therefore cannot be made TDMA compatible via a firmware update. [4]

X2-TDMA can also be monitored with DSD.

Printed from: Project 25 - The RadioReference Wiki
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Old 02-06-2012, 6:43 AM
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No, the 197 won't decode it - HOWEVER if the system you're listening to reverts to Phase 1 because other users are also Phase 1 on that talkgroup, you'd be able to hear it. That is the way of things that I've noticed on the PG county system (it doesn't happen all that often, frankly)

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Old 02-07-2012, 12:40 AM
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Thanks for the info. Is MOTOturbo also TDMA?
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Old 02-07-2012, 1:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kc0usq View Post
Thanks for the info. Is MOTOturbo also TDMA?
Yes, Mototrbo is also TDMA.
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Old 02-07-2012, 3:30 AM
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Will RS possibly produce an APCO 25 II capable scanner in the future, and if so, will it also be capable of receiving MOTOturbo?
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Old 02-07-2012, 3:57 AM
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It is possible. I think it has a lot to do with licensing and copyrights. Phase II was waiting on the final version. Mototrbo can be monitored with DSD
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Last edited by W8RMH; 02-07-2012 at 4:03 AM..
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Old 10-12-2015, 8:33 AM
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So basically, the 197 will NOT receive Columbiana County Sheriff or any department using that system, is that what you are saying?
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Old 10-12-2015, 8:49 AM
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197 will not decode phase 11. You will need a scanner that specifically decodes phase 11 , I have a GRE PSR 800 and does great.
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Old 10-12-2015, 9:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb3isq View Post
197 will not decode phase 11. You will need a scanner that specifically decodes phase 11 , I have a GRE PSR 800 and does great.
This is phase 1, not 2.
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Old 10-12-2015, 9:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8dk View Post
This is phase 1, not 2.
Yes the Pro-197 will decode a Phase 1 system. When I had one, it worked on all the P-1 systems in my area.
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Old 10-12-2015, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KT4HX View Post
Yes the Pro-197 will decode a Phase 1 system. When I had one, it worked on all the P-1 systems in my area.
What settings did u use?
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Old 10-12-2015, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8dk View Post
What settings did u use?
Not sure what specific settings you are referring to. It worked fine right out of the box. I only downloaded the systems from the RR database and didn't have to tweak anything. I sold it about 3 years ago as it was redundant to what I needed. But I know I didn't do any setting tweaks to get it to work.
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Old 10-12-2015, 12:56 PM
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Ok I have it working. Thanks
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