Pro-106 Lost Digital

N3FAH · #1 (**permalink**) 11-12-2012, 7:18 AM

I've had the Pro-106 since it was released and consider myself a fairly competent programmer. But recently the unit lost sensitivity - or so I thought. After recording all "hits" for a day in Win-500, I realize that it has lost only the Digital side - all Analog signals are received fine, just nothing digital. Since our local police is Analog on base, and Digital on mobile (go figure?) it took a while for this to register with me. Even running "clean" - no NACs, no PLs, just bare-bones "Auto" it won't see anything that's broadcast in DG. And no, they didn't change freqs on me, my analog scanner gets all the traffic, just can't decode the digital 'flatulence'.

So the question for the day is - is there any way I could have inadvertently de-programmed digital? Those with 'smart' phones know all about "butt-dialing" - could I have "butt-dialed" the radio? I re-loaded the latest CPU (2.1) and DSP (1.4) programs, as well as re-loaded my entire Win-500 scanner file and I'd think that would've cleared any "pilot-induced" errors.

Before I send it back to RS for overhaul does anybody see anything I might have overlooked?

gewecke · #2 (**permalink**) 11-12-2012, 7:26 AM

Is your PD on a trunked system? Or a P25 repeater?

If they are on a trunked system, could the control channel have changed?

Is your attenuator (ATT) turned on?

73,
n9zas

N3FAH · #3 (**permalink**) 11-12-2012, 12:39 PM

Well, no trunking here in the great north woods. Local PD doesn't even have a repeater, would be 'pure' simplex except the base is analog and mobiles are digi. But I have lost the state too (100% digital) and all the surrounding counties (95% digital) - one neighboring County Sheriff is still analog and I get them fine. All the regional fire dispatch (100% analog) comes in OK. Anything that transmitted in digi - I cleared all the tones, NACs, etc. and went bare bones, just the freq - and still no joy.

At some point in the past two weeks I must've 'butt dialed' the Global Attenuator, and saw "GA" on the display. But that was promptly cleared and the annunciator went out.

I've been doing CPR on it for two days now. Before I take it off life support and send it back to RS repair for an autopsy I just thought I'd see if I might've overlooked something. Sometimes you just don't see the forest for the trees, you know.

Tnx; N3FAH

RoninJoliet · #4 (**permalink**) 11-12-2012, 2:57 PM

Did u re-check that the software may have changed it to a P25 system?...If i have it correct a digital-analog system uses "Motorola 800-900 trunking, just checking.....

N3FAH · #5 (**permalink**) 11-13-2012, 7:16 AM

Nah, no "system" - we are severely low-tech here, VHF 151-155 MHz. The town got a federal interoperability grant for digital radios for the (6) PD cruisers so they could communicate with mutual aid from state and county. But the town mothers would not appropriate money for a digital base so that remains analog. Local cell tower operator offered town a free (yes, FREE!) repeater and they turned that down because they did not want the appearance of conflict of interest. So we are split-mode simplex. Small town politics here in Peyton Place.

The latest - I now see a couple of widely-spaced "hits" on digital channels - apparently it WILL receive digi but only when signal strength is WAY up there - like the town cruiser is on my street. (One lives down the block, I am tempted to ask him to give me a radio check.) Town does use NACs when digital and it can see them but apparently only with 'five bars' signal strength from a close mobile. So I am thinking an overall loss of sensitivity issue here, the regional fire transmitters are very strong mountaintop repeaters but the PD/SD digi stuff must need more signal to decode. As opposed to FM which comes and goes, digi is pretty much "all or nothing". This doesn't even "pixellate' like digi will do with a weak signal or multipath. It's just... not... there.

BTW tried this with several "rubber ducky" antennas and the base antenna, no change. It acts - almost like there is NO antenna. (On my old rig, the BNC got loose and twisted the antenna lead off inside the radio, A BEAR to fix.) But this, as far as I can tell, is rock solid but I am going to peek inside the box anyway.

Thanks for your input, guys. Better days ahead.

73, de N3FAH k

ecollins11 · #6 (**permalink**) 11-13-2012, 4:19 PM

Are you sure the PD mobiles are p25 ? they could be mototrbo or other digital besides p25. The Pro 106 is only p25 an will not pick up any other digital systems..

KevinC · #7 (**permalink**) 11-13-2012, 4:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N3FAH

Nah, no "system" - we are severely low-tech here, VHF 151-155 MHz. The town got a federal interoperability grant for digital radios for the (6) PD cruisers so they could communicate with mutual aid from state and county. But the town mothers would not appropriate money for a digital base so that remains analog. Local cell tower operator offered town a free (yes, FREE!) repeater and they turned that down because they did not want the appearance of conflict of interest. So we are split-mode simplex. Small town politics here in Peyton Place.

So I have to ask, how does the base hear the mobiles if it is analog and the mobiles are P25? Or am I missing something???

It's also interesting that their license is for analog only.

N3FAH · #8 (**permalink**) 11-13-2012, 7:25 PM

Well, the way the base hears the mobiles, is they have this Pro-106 at HQ...

Just kidding, I dunno how they do it, they patch it in though. The town cruisers (when digi), the state police, and counties SDs are all P-25. I doubt they could ALL have changed overnight, I am pretty sure the issue is with my radio, not theirs. (BTW when they do reprogram radios - they broadcast it all over the county so everybody brings their radios to the shop at the same time. It's like "HELLO? You wanna commit a crime? Do it Thursday at 6PM - we won't have any radios on the street." Oooo-kaay.

As to licensing analog vs digital... to paraphrase one of my favorite old movie lines, "License? We don' need no stinkin' LICENSE!"

Whenever I think I have this really great idea, I look down at the beach and I see somebody else's footprints in the sand going the same direction. Someone has ALWAYS been there before me. :-(

Remember, the only difference between a brain storm and a brain fart is the wind direction.

And I am plumb out of brain storms.

73s, N3FAH

VE3JSO · #9 (**permalink**) 11-13-2012, 7:56 PM

silly question have you tried to restore the scanner to factory settings to see if that helps and another thought is maybe try another system that is p25 to see if it could pick that up

N3FAH · #10 (**permalink**) 11-15-2012, 6:57 PM

Not that silly, actually. I had forgotten that little 0-1-2 trick. Not that it did any good, unfortunately, but it was worth the try. It is beginning to look more and more like a fading sensitivity thing, Some digi signals at the low end of the VHF spectrum (151 MHz) are lost, while those in the 155 MHz range -seem- to get through. Sometimes. But trying to find a pattern beyond that is eluding me.

Back in my airplane days, I used to hate "Cannot Duplicate" discrepancies. Now I am one. Pooh.

KevinC · #11 (**permalink**) 11-15-2012, 7:14 PM

Are your "signal bars" at zero when no signal is active or are they full scale?

N3FAH · #12 (**permalink**) 11-16-2012, 7:31 AM

Believe it or not, I fixed it. :-)

I was trying to figure out what could cause such a loss of sensitivity, it was acting... like there was no antenna connected. So... (Hey, in for a penny, in for a pound - a new radio is $399 and a board swap is $278) I popped the case off, peeked inside the RF shield over the antenna, and there is this little 1/8" loop of wire from the PC board to the center terminal of the BNC connector. With the radio running on house power I pushed on that with a nylon 'diddle stick' and it MOVED! ... Best of all - the radio INSTANTLY came back to life. Cold Solder Joint had worked loose over time.

I peeled back the RF shield, slid a piece of paper between the joint and the PC Board to protect against solder drops, and re-soldered the connector. Bent the shield back into place, and reassembled.

I can hear EVERYTHING! I am getting repeaters over 100 miles away so strong that I need to re-input the PL tones and NAC codes to eliminate the 'skip'. (Maine re-uses frequencies every 100 miles or so, with different PLs to prevent interference. Without them I get all sorts of cross-talk.)

So thanks, guys, for all the help and advice.

Oh, and for my friend from Canada: Drove up to Quebec one time a couple years back, programmed in all the PQ police, fire, etc. Turned on the radio... (Yeah, you know where this is goin', don't you) and coundn't understand a thing. Ma Francais es muy poquito, senor. :-?

73s guys, have a great day. I know I am. de N3FAH, k