Confusing Loss of Trunking Ability in a PRO-2052

[N7CAS]

I have a 10-year-old Radio Shack PRO-2052 tracking my region's trunked system. Its lack of alpha tags has always been annoying, but its function was to serve as a secondary to a Uniden trunker that does have alpha tags. Suddenly the 2052 stopped trunking. I can hear the transmissions but no Talk Group ID displays anymore. I figured maybe the radio has failed. I have a second 2052 that I've never used, still in the original box in a closet; the intent was to use it in tandem with the trunked 2052 for non-trunk frequencies since I expected my ancient PRO-2006 to die any day (it never did and still is working superbly, so I've never used the second 2052).

To troubleshoot the sudden loss of trunking ability in the first 2052, I programmed the second 2052 with the necessary system frequencies... and the results are still the same. No Talk Group IDs anymore, and like the other 2052, pressing "Search" just gives me an Error display. "Search" is how the scanner displays IDs. No activity at all is displayed, including active system frequency.

I am puzzled. My mainstay, a Uniden, still tracks away, displaying both IDs and alpha tags... so that rules out a communications system change. Unless that's only because its hardware/software is different than Radio Shack. Is the 10-year-old hardware in the 2052 just obsolete? It trunked fine just last month. Any thoughts? Thanks.

[mmckenna]

If you are hearing the control channel on the same frequencies they have always been on the likely cause is they changed protocols. If you can provide the frequency, that would help us out.

There are a couple of things that can affect this:
1. If they are on the 800MHz band, likely they have rebanded, but that would result in the frequencies they use moving down 15MHz from their previous location.
2. If they are not on 800MHz and the frequency hasn't changed, then it's likely they changed their protocol.
3. If they went to a simulcast system, you may be getting enough traffic from two sites to cause this issue, but normally they would use different control channels at the sites.
4. Could be that two scanners are bad, but that would be unlikely.

Your scanner does support trunking, but only the Motorola and EDACS version. Both of those are pretty old and a lot of those systems are getting replaced. My gut says they changed protocols on you. You will need to figure out what they went to and find a reciever that will handle that protocol to resume hearing their traffic.

[N7CAS]

This is solid information. Thank you. But the control channel is the same. In fact -- and here's the confusion: all the data is identical among the Radio Shack models and my newer (but still old) Uniden - a BCD396T. This region (Washoe County, Nev.) completed its rebanding three years ago in EDACS. The confusion is that the Uniden trunks away, happily scanning the identical system, absolutely no problem. Both 2052s have ceased IDing any talk groups. Transmissions are consistently followed by a long series of high-frequency beeps and the control channel is (thankfully) skipped. I have reset the 2052s. Reprogrammed, double-checking EDACS mode is selected, and that the logical channel numbers and system frequencies are identical to those in the working Uniden.

I hauled out the 2052's manual and although I remember well how to program it, I followed each step like a Medieval scribe. In that regard, all goes well until the radio is supposed to monitor IDs. One presses the SEARCH key. It says Error and None of the channel acrtivity indicators activate. In either radio. And the Uniden is perfectly happy (my favorite scanner ever).

At the time the 2052 was a $250 scanner. But they are 10 years old. I hate to walk away from problems, much preferring to learn what the hell's wrong. But this one might me an indicator that it's time to just recycle the electronics and replace 'em with somethin' made this decade.

[mmckenna]

Ah, there's the issue. Your BCD396T does P25, the PRO-2052's do not. It's very likely that they switched to a P25 system since EDACS is pretty out of date, and most public safety systems are switching to P25.

Technology marches on....

[N7CAS]

I think your expertise nailed it, sir. Lots of tech traffic during last month on the 2052 and Uniden both, before the 2052 stopped trunking. And the Uniden still works fine. The 2052s are obsolete; they didn't even have alpha tagging. As a result, I reckonI have two more non-trunking scanners then, and my thinking is one can never have too many scanners... it's just an opportunity for more selective, dedicated receivers! And also time to get some current tech. Thanks again.

[mmckenna]

Glad I could be of assistance.

[jamesa53]

You should, however, still be able to listen to this system with your 2052. It must have not undergone any protocol changes because someone updated it yesterday.

Note that RRDB indicates this system (assuming this is the one you are haveing problems with) is still EDACS standard. It was last updated August 4th of this year.

Also note that only the new LCN frequencies need to be entered when an EDACS system is rebanded, the trunking tables do not need to be adjusted (not that you could do that anyway on a 2052).

I still have an old PRO-90 that only monitors Motorola analog systems and no alpha tagging. Yours is advanced compared to it.

Not to throw a wrench in this solution, but if the system did in fact switch to P25, how did the Uniden change its settings all by itself?

My take is since when you are trying to just monitor the IDs the radio immediately says Error, something is amiss in the programming of the radio. Id triple check the freqs and the programming.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by N7CAS

I think your expertise nailed it, sir. Lots of tech traffic during last month on the 2052 and Uniden both, before the 2052 stopped trunking. And the Uniden still works fine. The 2052s are obsolete; they didn't even have alpha tagging. As a result, I reckonI have two more non-trunking scanners then, and my thinking is one can never have too many scanners... it's just an opportunity for more selective, dedicated receivers! And also time to get some current tech. Thanks again.

So we're saying this system, Washoe County Trunking System, Washoe County, Nevada - Scanner Frequencies, is now P25? And you didn't change the system type in your 396 and it still works?

Something isn't right here. If it went from EDACS to P25 and you changed nothing on your 396 it wouldn't work either.

[fredva]

Could it be that you need to hit the "Trunk" button while scanning the system?

[jamesa53]

The OP says his radio no longer monitors Talk group IDs. This is where the radio shows the ID s only and there is no audio. It's a special mode of this particular scanner.

[jamesa53]

Originally Posted by KevinC

So we're saying this system, Washoe County Trunking System, Washoe County, Nevada - Scanner Frequencies, is now P25? And you didn't change the system type in your 396 and it still works?

Something isn't right here. If it went from EDACS to P25 and you changed nothing on your 396 it wouldn't work either.

This.

[N7CAS]

Well, this is embarrassing if not classic. Make sure the system frequencies are correct! The source file referenced for my region's EDACS listed two system frequencies incorrectly. I did not cross-check radioreference.com, assuming the source file to be correct. Naturally, then the 2052s do not trunk if the LCN data cites a bogus frequency! Duh! Indeed a programming error all along by yours truly (a.k.a. Einstein). I realized the gaffe when I checked the Uniden's programmed system frequencies directly rather than rely on a file I had put in my computer's radio folder. Solutions are always simple. Like I said, embarrassing. Thanks, all, for your suggestions.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by N7CAS

Well, this is embarrassing if not classic. Make sure the system frequencies are correct! The source file referenced for my region's EDACS listed two system frequencies incorrectly. I did not cross-check radioreference.com, assuming the source file to be correct. Naturally, then the 2052s do not trunk if the LCN data cites a bogus frequency! Duh! Indeed a programming error all along by yours truly (a.k.a. Einstein). I realized the gaffe when I checked the Uniden's programmed system frequencies directly rather than rely on a file I had put in my computer's radio folder. Solutions are always simple. Like I said, embarrassing. Thanks, all, for your suggestions.

Awesome! Glad you got it going.

[jamesa53]

This explains why the 2052 didnt work, but still does not explain the Uniden "still tracks away, displaying both IDs and alpha tags" despite changed LCN freqs. Seems to me the new LCN freqs had to be entered into it to keep it working.

[N7CAS]

That's because the Uniden had the proper LCNs. I hadn't realized the mistake with the 2052s LCNs until I directly checked the (correct) programming in the Uniden. Naturally this also speaks to an old dog getting away from my comfort zone of manually entering the data (a process I've always enjoyed rather than finding it "tedious") instead of relying on a download. I hark from the days of crystals, and entering frequencies on a keypad was high-tech. LOL! Thanks again for all the suggestions. Very cool.

[jamesa53]

you can still buy xtals and you can manually program these scanners by hand but its not fun