OKWIN and Pro163/164

[Walt725]

I am currently trying to get my 163 to work correctly with the recently rebanded Vinita CC in NE Oklahoma. The other sites like Pryor, Miami and Tulsa all still work fine but Vinita changed about 4 weeks ago. Whats happening is that with the new CC programmed, when it hears traffic, the 163 is channeling to the wrong frequency. I see it go to a traffic channel up in the 869 to 871 area when really all the traffic channels are now 851-845 on this site.

I have played extensively with Win97 as well as ARC500 and both give me the same results. I have tried all the different multi-table band plans but none will channel correctly. Has anyone gotten the OKWIN rebanded sites to work correctly with the 163/164. (Firmware is v1.08)

I even use a BC996XT for the internet feed here on RR and I am having the same problem with it.
Surely its something I am doing wrong.

Can anyone suggest what I might try different.

Thanks for your help.

Walt

 

[ecollins11]

You might try this tread an ask your question http://forums.radioreference.com/oklahoma-radio-discussion-forum/254391-okwin-rebanding-status.html I tried the win97 on my pro 163 an set it for rebanded an it seems to be working ok as the Tecumesh site has been rebanded the CC is 860.26250 an when Shawnee PD was talking the VC was 851.67500 so it looks like it is working and I did the same with Win 500 for my Pro 187 ..

 

[Walt725]

I have had someone else who should know the OKWIN system really well, tell me that something is very strange about the way the Vinita site is set up. Definitely not standard. I will keep plugging away but part of my problem is not knowing how the pro163 knows which line in the multi-table to use. I thought i had it figured out, but apparently not.

Thanks for the info. I will keep everyone posted.

 

[DickH]

I have had someone else who should know the OKWIN system really well, tell me that something is very strange about the way the Vinita site is set up. Definitely not standard. I will keep plugging away but part of my problem is not knowing how the pro163 knows which line in the multi-table to use. I thought i had it figured out, but apparently not.

Thanks for the info. I will keep everyone posted.

Try using the following band plans. These are used by the people in Utah. Their state-wide system has many sites with various configurations of control channels and these 3 configurations work there.
It is possible that some systems are different from those in Utah. Let's hope not.

"NORMAL" CONTROL CHANNEL
Lo Chan Hi Chan Offset Base Freq Step
PLAN 1 0 439 0 851.012500 25.000
PLAN 2 440 559 440 851.025000 25.000

The control channel in some systems may somehow be different. If the above "NORMAL"
plans do not work, try entering them as below. Works for CLACKAMAS COUNTY, OR
"ODD" CONTROL CHANNEL
Lo Chan Hi Chan Offset Base Freq Step
PLAN 1 440 559 440 851.02500 25.000
PLAN 2 0 439 0 851.01250 25.000

If the above two configurations do not work, try the following THREE Custom Band Plans.
Custom range 1 Lo base freq 851.3125 Hi base freq 854.0000 Offset 560 Spacing 12.5
Custom range 2 Lo base freq 851.0125 Hi base freq 861.9875 Offset 0 Spacing 25
Custom range 3 Lo base freq 851.0250 hi base freq 854.0000 Offset 440 Spacing 25

 

[Walt725]

Dick,
Here is the band plan I have currently installed.

0 599 494 851.000000 25.000
0 719 32768 851.012500 25.000

Right now it is correctly channeling the splinter freqs, but not the standard freqs.
I will try your suggestion for plan2 and let you know the results.

Thanks.

Walt

 

[Walt725]

Dick,
As a followup, I tried your new config and the radio is still channeling to a frequency way out of band (297.xxxx Mhz) on any channel ending in .xxx5. The frequencies RR has shown for the Vinita site on the OKWIN network are correct. I can scan them in conventional mode and hear traffic, both analog and digital.

Walt

 

[DickH]

Dick,
As a followup, I tried your new config and the radio is still channeling to a frequency way out of band (297.xxxx Mhz) on any channel ending in .xxx5. The frequencies RR has shown for the Vinita site on the OKWIN network are correct. I can scan them in conventional mode and hear traffic, both analog and digital.

Walt

I gave you THREE things to try. Did you put them in exactly as listed and try them all?
You don't put in only plan 2, as you stated.

Any freq. with a 5 in the 4th decimal place will work as always. Any freq. with a zero in the 4th decimal place will not track correctly without the correct new band plans.
With the wrong band plans, 851.5000 will display as 861.4875 and 853.2250 will display as 864.2125 and you will hear nothing on those two freqs. The other freqs. on that site will work normally.
I don't know how you can be seeing 297.xxx5 etc.

 

[Walt725]

Dick,
I have tried all three options as you listed.

With your 3rd suggestion you didnt mention the starting channel number.
The 163/164 uses only a starting frequency and low/high channel number.

Here is what I entered:
Lo Chan Hi Chan Offset Base Freq Step
0 215 560 851.312500 12.500
0 439 0 851.012500 25.000
0 119 440 851.025000 25.000

With it keeps channeling in the 860-862 range.
Any idea?
Thanks

 

[DickH]

Dick, I have tried all three options as you listed.

Those Band Plans came from the Utah people.

Here are the 2 new Band Plans I used that work on an odd system here in the Portland area.
I just ran through it, step-by-step, so I know it is correct.

LO FREQ. HI FREQ OFFSET SPACING
1) 851.3125 854.0000 560 12.5
2) 851.0125 854.0000 440 25.0

Try it exactly as shown, then let me know if it works.

 

[Walt725]

On the Win97 software I must enter a Low Channel and High Channel along with the base freq and offset.

I really think this is where most of my problems lay. For the suggestions you made, what would be the lo/hi channel combo?

 

[DickH]

On the Win97 software I must enter a Low Channel and High Channel along with the base freq and offset.

I really think this is where most of my problems lay. For the suggestions you made, what would be the lo/hi channel combo?

I thought this was clear - I guess not.
LO FREQ. HI FREQ OFFSET SPACING
1) 851.3125 854.0000 560 12.5
2) 851.0125 854.0000 440 25.0

1) Lo CHANNEL= 851.3125; Hi CHANNEL = 854.000; OFFSET = 560; SPACING = 12.5.
2) Lo CHANNEL= 851.0125; Hi CHANNEL = 854.000; OFFSET = 440; SPACING = 25.0.

 

[ka3jjz]

Sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words...

File:WIN97 Trunking Tables.jpg - The RadioReference Wiki

Mike

 

[DickH]

Sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words...

File:WIN97 Trunking Tables.jpg - The RadioReference Wiki

Mike

Thanks Mike.
WALT725: Try this.

BASE 851.0125, OFFSET 0, SPACING 25.0
BASE 851.0250, OFFSET 440, SPACING 25.0

 

[Walt725]

Mike & Dick,

I think we are still missing the point that I need to enter the channel numbers that the control channel sends out and then figure the offset into the Win97 table. Regardless it still doesn't work.

What I have determined is that the Pro163/164 radios will only use the first line of the multi-table band-plan.
I can get either the .xxx0 frequencies to channel correctly or get the .xxx5 frequencies to channel correctly, but not both.

If i put both lines in the table, only line 1 will work.

I will give up on these radios for now and take down my feed and start working on the BC996 and see if i have any better luck with it. What I have also determined is that the Vinita site does not conform to the standard band-plan.
Base Freq = 851.0125, Low Chan = 0, High Chan = 439, Offset = 370

I will keep you posted if I can get the 996 to work properly.
Thanks,
Walt

 

[DickH]

Forgetting all of that for the moment, this is what the band plans need to do:

Motorola channel numbers are used by the control channel instead of frequencies.
The pre-rebanding 851-854 freqs. used channel numbers 0 to 120, starting at 851.0125 with a spacing of 25 kHz.
There were no channel numbers for the freqs. in that range with a zero in the 4th decimal place (851.0250, 851.0500, etc.), spaced at 25kHz.
Those are the 866-868 freqs. that were re-banded by subtracting 15MHz, thus becoming 851.0250 to 853.9750 with 25kHz spacing.
Motorola used channel numbers 440 to 560 to accommodate those new freqs.

SOoooo, what you need to do is add a new band plan that adds channel numbers 440 to 560 with 25kHz spacing. The OFFSET (or starting channel number) is 440, Lo freq. of 851.0250 with 25kHz spacing and a Hi freq. of 854.
BUT, when you put in custom band plans they overwrite the ones that are there, so you must put the old ones back in at the same time. That is the other band plan that puts back 851.0125 to 854 with an OFFSET of zero and 25kHz spacing.

Most re-banded systems will work by putting in one Band Plan, then the other Band Plan, but some need to have the second Band Plan entered first, then the first Band Plan entered second. I know it doesn't make sense, but it has worked in Utah and it works on the Clackamas county system here in Oregon.
I've posted exactly how I entered the Band Plans farther back in this thread. You have never answered that you have tried it EXACTLY as I wrote.
That's the whole story.

 

[Walt725]

And yet more info:

The Vinita site has 4 traffic channels:
851.5500
852.5875
853.2250
853.7125

Looking at the actual channel number in the control channel, I see:
Channel 439 which corresponds to 852.5500 (calculated but unverified)
Channel 433 which corresponds to 852.5875 - verified
Channel 382 which corresponds to 853.2250 - verified
Channel 343 which corresponds to 853.7125 - verified
What doesn't make sense is that as channels go up, the frequency actually goes down.
Can you suggest how to build a band-plan out of this scheme?

Thanks.
Walt

 

[Walt725]

This is what it took to get the the 164 to channel correctly.
Can anyone explain why ?

 

[DickH]

And yet more info:

The Vinita site has 4 traffic channels:
851.5500
852.5875
853.2250
853.7125

Looking at the actual channel number in the control channel, I see:
Channel 439 which corresponds to 852.5500 (calculated but unverified)
Channel 433 which corresponds to 852.5875 - verified
Channel 382 which corresponds to 853.2250 - verified
Channel 343 which corresponds to 853.7125 - verified
What doesn't make sense is that as channels go up, the frequency actually goes down.
Can you suggest how to build a band-plan out of this scheme?

First, you need re-start your thinking and use the correct terminology. The Vinita site has five (5) frequencies. The one with a "c" is the CONTROL CHANNEL. The one with an "a" is the alternate control channel. The other three (3) are VOICE channels.
851.5500
852.0875c
852.5875a
853.2250
853.7125
Before we can try to figure out what's going on, where did those Channel numbers come from?

 

[Walt725]

They came from decoding the control channel.
And yes 825.5875 is an alternate control channel, however it is also being used as a traffic channel.
We operate a multi-state trunking ourselves, so I do have a little background in trunking.

 

[DickH]

Looking at the actual channel number in the control channel, I see:
Channel 439 which corresponds to 852.5500 (calculated but unverified)
Channel 433 which corresponds to 852.5875 - verified
Channel 382 which corresponds to 853.2250 - verified
Channel 343 which corresponds to 853.7125 - verified
What doesn't make sense is that as channels go up, the frequency actually goes down.
Can you suggest how to build a band-plan out of this scheme?

That is mind boggling.
I have gone through all the back and forth comms I had with KE7XM in Utah, then
I checked my PRO-162 that is working perfectly with his suggested Band Plans,
so I know the following works.

3 CUSTOM BAND PLANS to re-band PRO-160 and PRO-162 scanners

In the manual they are called Custom Systems and Custom Ranges.
I prefer to call them Custom Band Plans.

There are three Control Channel configurations requiring specific programming sequences.
You must check the frequencies in your system to decide which sequence to use.

1) If ALL the CC freqs. have a 5 in the 4th decimal place (852.3875, etc.),
Enter only Plan 2, then Plan 3.
2) If ALL the CC freqs. have a zero in the 4th decimal place (853.6250, etc.),
Enter only Plan 3, then Plan 2.
3) If the CC freqs. are mixed ("zero" freqs. AND "5" freqs.),
Enter Plan 1, then Plan 2, then Plan 3.

Custom Band Plan 1 is a special design by KE7XM in Utah. He devised a way to
"trick" the scanner so it will track regardless of "mixed" Control Channel frequencies.
NOTE 1: If a Control Channel is between 851.0000 and 851.3000 this method may not work.

Try entering the 3 Band Plans in this exact order.
1) LO 851.3125 HI 854.0000 OFFSET 560 SPACING 12.5

2) LO 851.0125 HI 861.9875 OFFSET 0 SPACING 25

3) LO 851.0250 HI 854.0000 OFFSET 440 SPACING 25

If the above order 1), 2), 3) does not work then try 1), 3), 2).
This works for the Clackamas county system in Oregon.
1) LO 851.3125 HI 854.0000 OFFSET 560 SPACING 12.5

3) LO 851.0250 HI 854.0000 OFFSET 440 SPACING 25

2) LO 851.0125 HI 861.9875 OFFSET 0 SPACING 25