Can I trick a Pro-96 into tracking diff freq?

[phillydjdan]

Is there anyway to trick the Pro-96 into tuning to the next step up from a certain frequency while tracking a trunked system? I've tried all of the custom tables with the new Philadelphia P25 system, but my scanner will not decode anything on the frequencies listed. However, I programmed all the Zone 1 voice channels into the scanner, but one step above (851.29375 instead of 851.2875) and I am picking up the voice activity very well. Same with the control channel. So, is there a way I could program the channels in such a way (maybe using the custom tables) that it tracks exactly one step above where it is supposed to?

[wingmaker]

I see that that system is using both phase 2 and 1 until all people get the phase 2 radios, and when that happen you wont here nothing. Until then if you have a cable for hooking to the computer, you can program in the custom tables, these into it the just put the Control Channels and you will be all goo, until they change to all Phase 2. Hope this helps you can get a free win 96 or something a free trial and program it if you have a cable for the PC


Custom Trunking Tables:

Ch-Lo: Ch-Hi: Offset: Base Frequency: Step: Slots:

0 4095 0 851.00625 6.25 FDMA

4096 8191 4096 762.00625 6.25 FDMA


LOVE AND BLESSINGS

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by phillydjdan

Is there anyway to trick the Pro-96 into tuning to the next step up from a certain frequency while tracking a trunked system? I've tried all of the custom tables with the new Philadelphia P25 system, but my scanner will not decode anything on the frequencies listed. However, I programmed all the Zone 1 voice channels into the scanner, but one step above (851.29375 instead of 851.2875) and I am picking up the voice activity very well. Same with the control channel. So, is there a way I could program the channels in such a way (maybe using the custom tables) that it tracks exactly one step above where it is supposed to?

Hmm...since the CC sounds better programmed to the wrong frequency I would surmise something is wrong with your Pro-96.

[phillydjdan]

No, there is nothing wrong with the scanner. It simply is too old to be able to track this system right out of the box. In fact, it was originally not intended to receive frequencies that low in the 800MHz band from what I hear. I suspect it is an issue with alignment at those frequencies. The old Philadelphia system worked great (which was in the 866 MHz range), and the neighboring Montgomery County trunked system (which has not been rebanded yet) still comes in perfectly. I was told by a manager at Radio Shack that the physical CPU in this particular scanner is older, and will not play nice on these frequencies. There are slightly newer Pro-96s and ones that had been returned for repair that had newer CPUs installed, and those scanners can pick up this new system (so I've heard). I've got the latest CPU firmware version installed, but that isn't helping either. I would think that since the alignment appears to be off by one frequency step, I should be able to program it in such a way that it tracks the voice channels exactly one frequency step above what it should be. I dunno.

[KevinC]

Ok, I'm not trying to argue with you, but it "should" track that system just fine...assuming it's a pure P25 system (which is what the database shows). The radio was designed to track 800 MHz P25 systems (851.0000-868.9875) and mine tracks them just fine with 851.xxxx frequencies.

You mention custom tables, a P25 system doesn't need to have them manually set. Have you tried it without setting any custom table?

All that being said, I'm here and you're there so if you say it doesn't work, it must not work.

[KevinC]

Check out this thread...

Does DonS know if Pro-96 tracks P25 851.xxxx TRS ?

And the tables in the database...

Philadelphia (Project 25) Trunking System, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Scanner Frequencies

[ka3jjz]

Probably better to ask this in the Pennsylvania forum - no doubt there is a thread (or several, perhaps) about this already...Mike

[edit] There is indeed a thread about this very topic here...

Upgraded philadelphia trs reprogramming q&a here

Note that RR, by policy, does not permit reposting the same question in more than one forum. That's a no-no here. 'Nuff said

[phillydjdan]

Ok, the system is NOT phase 2... yet. As long as it is phase 1 the older RS and Uniden's should scan it. I asked this question in this forum because the PA forum did not get any results, and I figured maybe someone had a similar problem elsewhere, and knew the trick.

[KevinC]

Did you happen to try the bandplan in the first lnk I posted? His issue sounds a lot like yours.

[robbinsj2]

Originally Posted by KevinC

You mention custom tables, a P25 system doesn't need to have them manually set. Have you tried it without setting any custom table?

The Pro-96/2096 does need tables programmed even for P25 trunked. The 106/197 does not (nor do a handful if not all of the Uniden P25 trunkers; I'm less familiar with them).

Jim

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by robbinsj2

The Pro-96/2096 does need tables programmed even for P25 trunked. The 106/197 does not (nor do a handful if not all of the Uniden P25 trunkers; I'm less familiar with them).

Jim

Interesting, I can take this system...


Texas Wide Area Radio Network (TxWARN) Project 25 Trunking System, Various, Texas - Scanner Frequencies

...put in the CC for site 03-005 and it's trunks perfectly.

Needing or not needing custom tables may be system specific, hence my suggestion to try the custom table in the thread I linked earlier.

[phillydjdan]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.5; en-us; ZTE-N910 Build/GRJ90) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

I will look tonight and see if that table works

[robbinsj2]

I'm sorry, I jumped to a conclusion because currently every P25 system in my area is UHF or 700 and I forgot about a peculiarity with 800MHz. The Pro-96 can't read tables from the control channel for any P25 system (and can't tune 700MHz at all) but it may default to an adequate pre-programmed band plan for 800MHz just like it does for Motorola systems, if it has not been set for a custom plan.

What I stated applies to VHF and UHF P25 trunked systems, but may not apply to 800MHz systems (and, further, for 800 may depend upon rebanding's effect on the system and the scanner firmware, I suppose).

Sorry for that mistake.

Originally Posted by KevinC

Interesting, I can take this system...

[kruser]

If the OP must program the frequencies a few kHz higher for proper reception, i'd say the master oscillator has drifted. Some sites it will still get as the op said but not all. Those sites may be transmitting a wider signal then the system he is having issues with. A wider signal will allow the scanner to receive a signal even if the oscillator has drifted.
I know the 96 does not allow all the smaller tuning steps that the current scanners do, that could be the problem also but I did not think this was a problem on the 96 in the 800 band. I know it rounds off frequencies for VHF systems such as the new one they are setting up here in Missouri. Even though it rounds them off to its nearest tuning step, it still receives those frequencies just fine and recovers the audio fine from a P25 signal in the VHF range. For VHF, you must use custom tables though and the 96 and 2096 also need custom tables if the site you are after has rebanded.

The 96 and 2096 are getting old now so the chance of oscillator drift is much greater than if the radio was a new model. Components age plus many components are skimped on today quality wise to keep cost down.

edit: If you a re tuning 851.29375 instead of 851.2875 for good reception and the actual true frequency is 851.2875, that is a sure sign of an oscillator being out of adjustment inside the radio. The reason it is not needed on some sites is because of what I said above, the other sites may be transmitting with a slightly wider bandwidth. Even just 1 kHz wider bandwidth could be enough to allow your 96 to decode the data. Newer transmitters could have tighter filtering or further reduced deviation over the other systems. Any of that could affect reception on your 96 if something has drifted off frequency in it.

[phillydjdan]

KevinC, the tables in your link do not work. The closest I get is using the default extended tables n Wn96, and it appears to attempt to track the system, but does not correctly land on the voice channel. The system runs on 851, 852 & 853 MHz, and it flashes frequencies in the 858, 856 range. I might crack this thing open and play with the pots at this point...

[KevinC]

Have you tried no custom tables?

Thinking about it, since you say it's going to 856-858 freqs that means the tables don't match what the radio has. Can you run Pro-96Com and post the trunking tables? I'm pretty sure we can get you going.

Don't touch any pots yet!

[phillydjdan]

Here's a screenshot:

[phillydjdan]

So... I went ahead and tinkered with the pots. The control channel now decodes better on the frequency it is supposed to be on more than the next step up. I pressed scan and it magically works! Now I have to throw the talkgroups back in. Thanks for your replies, gentlemen. I knew it had to be an alignment issue based on what I was seeing.

[KevinC]

Ok, those are the standard tables and the same ones the system mine works on has.

You said your radio is going to 856-858 frequencies, that implies the tables are wrong. Try it with no custom table and report what you see.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by phillydjdan

So... I went ahead and tinkered with the pots. The control channel now decodes better on the frequency it is supposed to be on more than the next step up. I pressed scan and it magically works! Now I have to throw the talkgroups back in. Thanks for your replies, gentlemen. I knew it had to be an alignment issue based on what I was seeing.

So it WAS a problem with your radio? Seems like someone posted that earlier.

Anyway, glad it's working now.