PRO 18 vs PRO 668

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1BMG1

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I had a PRO 18 for a year or so, but it really struggled with Simulcast transmissions (EBRCS in Northern California) so I gave it to my son to use in SoCal.

Would like to get a new scanner, and see that the 668 model is available reasonably right now on Ebay, etc. Question : would the 668 be better at handling the Simulcast transmissions that the 18 ? If so, why ?

Thanks for the help, I am purely an occasional listener but don't want to buy something that wont work well obviously.. thanks again for suggestions and advise.
 

Nasby

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Probably not.

It is basically the same scanner as the PRO-18 with a few changes.

The guts and CPU's, etc. are essentially the same.
 

retropcdos

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Very true. But no changes have been made that would improve simulcast distortion issues.

Front end hasn't change much and utilized a single filter. In some high IF/IR Location you do have simulcast distortion issue in some areas. Due to RF stages can be overloaded. Everyone's area is different, so may perform well, or may preform poorly. You have to use the use the attenuator and change DSP adapt level. Mines work great, no missing traffic, or distortion anymore. Using a directional antenna also helps, but in most cases not needed, Only recommend if you have a few site towers close by. The scanner does pull in quite a bit due to it being sensitive. So depends on your area, everyone experience is going to be different. No scanner, or radio is perfect.
 
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Nasby

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Care to back up that statement ??

Because retro called you out and you waffled.

I have both units side by side in a simulcast saturated world. They perform identically.

Plus, my 85 years of dissecting scanners and using scanners since the first tunable Tennelec Act-10 crystal controlled comb tube oscillating LED unit to hit the market back when radio shack sold atomic do it yourself resistor kits and the store was staffed by real hams.

And with the threads related to the Pro-668 and Pro-18, it is pretty clear that the basic components are the same.

But to the OP, why not just spend the $200 or less and see for yourself?

The 668's sure are cheap enough right now.
 

1BMG1

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Thanks for the feedback.

Sounds as though the "Simulcast" garbling is an issue that still has not been mastered by any of scanners to date, but I am also hearing that either a PRO 18 or 668 can be tuned (via attenuator and DSP adapt) to minimize the garbling effect ?

retropcdos - can you please explain to me what settings you find "best" to tune these radios for better reception in simulcast areas ? I am at the base of Mt. Diablo ... tons of relays and transmission towers around me... the garbling has been really annoying to the point that I gave my Pro18 to my kid in San Diego.

At this point, I will prolly grab a 668 off Ebay and attempt to tune it ... or maybe buy another brand radio that deals with simulcast transmissions better ... if there is such a thing ?

Again - advise and suggestions appreciated !
 

Nasby

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@1BMG1
Another suggestion would be to post a similar question in the California forum.

That way you have a good chance of someone who may have found a scanner that can handle the simulcast issues in your area.

Its kinda weird but a scanner that handles simulcast distortion on a radio system in Ohio may not handle a system in Cali.

Good luck to you!
 

scosgt

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Is it possible that locking out certain towers would help?
I lock out one of the NJSP towers because in my area (pretty far from NJ) that tower freq belongs to a different local system which of course creates a problem.
 

fredva

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Generally speaking, the Unident x36hp scanners handle P25 Simulcast systems (like EBRCS) the best. I don't have one myself - yet. However, I sometimes listen to a local feed of a simulcast system that replaced an older digital scanner with a new 536hp scanner. The difference was night and day. Before, the feed often had garbled transmissions. Now, the audio is very clear. The only audio issue I notice is that for some of the transmissions, the volume is a little low. If you have time, you might try listening to the feed yourself. There is both an analog and a digital system covered by the feed; it's the digital system that matters: Stafford County and Fredericksburg Fire and EMS

I will say - YOUR MILEAGE COULD VARY.

Now, if we were talking about an older SMARTNET simulcast system, your PRO-18 or the PRO-668 would be able to handle it just fine, while the Unidens could struggle.
 

fredva

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Is it possible that locking out certain towers would help?
I lock out one of the NJSP towers because in my area (pretty far from NJ) that tower freq belongs to a different local system which of course creates a problem.

You can't lock out a tower in a simulcast system - they all use the same frequencies. That's what creates the problem - the transmissions coming on the same frequency from different places.
 

retropcdos

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Best bet is to post this question in your area and see what other are using and settings, as it vary from one area to another and system and site towers. One scanner may preform better also in one area, while another may not. The DSP Level adapt setting controls how fast the DSP reacts to changing signal levels, Multi-site Threshold levels are for determining when the scanner attempts to find a site with a better signal than the one currently in use. Sometime I set the Attenuation for site if it being overloaded. You have to find the right combination. The problem is cause by different site towers.

The R/S pro-668 sure work fine, one you get it set correctly. Uniden x36 may be better for your area. I would still ask and post this in your area and people will tell you what they are using and what gave them best results.
 
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marksmith

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You can't lock out a tower in a simulcast system - they all use the same frequencies. That's what creates the problem - the transmissions coming on the same frequency from different places.
Not true. You can lock out or avoid a site in a lot of scanners directly or through their software. This will sometimes help with simulcast issues, but not always.

In many cases you will also have to attenuate the system signal to try and only get one signal and/or use a directional antenna for the same purpose.

Trying to receive a simulcast system often involves using the lousiest antenna you can find to limit the reception of more than one source of signal if its a strong system or you are in thr middle of a bunch of towers. No scanner, including the x36 Uniden scanners can handle this any better than any others. Its all a function of location, signal strength & directional receiving techniques.

Mark
536HP/HP1e/HP2e/996P2/996XT
996T/396XT(2)/PSR800/PRO668
 

fredva

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Not true. You can lock out or avoid a site in a lot of scanners directly or through their software. This will sometimes help with simulcast issues, but not always.

Yes, you can lock out a "site" but a site does not always equal a single, specific tower. In a simulcast system, a site usually contains multiple towers, and those towers share the same set of frequencies. As an example, look at the FCC data for the CCCO West Simulcast Site site in the EBRCS system: WQLV705 (CONTRA COSTA, COUNTY OF) FCC Callsign Details Within that single site, there are multiple locations (towers) in El Cerrito, Richmond, Hercules, and Crocket that use the same frequencies.

In that list, there seems to be one oddball tower at Clayton - maybe that one is from another site that got lumped in with this FCC license; I'm not sure.

This is the RR page showing the shared frequencies for that particular site: CCCO West Simulcast Site Details (East Bay Regional Communications System (EBRCS))

If you know of a way a scanner can lock out all but one of those El Cerrito, Richmond, Hercules, or Crocket towers, please let me know - I'd love to be able to do that with a simulcast system in my area.

In many cases you will also have to attenuate the system signal to try and only get one signal and/or use a directional antenna for the same purpose.

Yes, that is a tactic to isolate the signal to a single tower within a simulcast site.

Trying to receive a simulcast system often involves using the lousiest antenna you can find to limit the reception of more than one source of signal if its a strong system or you are in thr middle of a bunch of towers. No scanner, including the x36 Uniden scanners can handle this any better than any others. Its all a function of location, signal strength & directional receiving techniques.

Might want to check out this video making a comparison of a couple of other scanners to a BCD536hp on a simulcast system. The best results came from a combination of the BCD536hp and a directional antenna: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXS7TofSnxk

There is only so much I can say about the x36hp scanners because I don't own one. I'm basically relying on what I hear from some of their owners and kinda passing that along. I just want the OP to have as much knowledge as possible.
 

fredva

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In the case of simulcast systems, the use of the word "site" is unfortunate, in my view, because most of us would assume a site is a single geographical place.
 

marksmith

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Well.. speaking as someone who HAS an x36 radio I don't need to go watch any videos to find out how it works on simulcast systems compared to other scanners.

I have simulcast sites and I have lots of other scanners. Your individual experience in trying to receive a simulcast system changes with so many varibles that the video is not instructive to me. Personal experience is much more instructive. I've done these comparisons in many locations on many sites and using a variety of radios.

No scanner is built to deal with simulcast. Period.

Its all a matter of how you deal with specific systems in specific locations in individual circumstances. Anybody tells you anything different is trying to sell you a radio.

Mark
536HP/HP1e/HP2e/996P2/996XT
996T/396XT(2)/PSR800/PRO668
 
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