New Clean Cab radio from Ritron

[motorola_otaku]

Saw this in February issue of Radio Resource back in the new products section.

http://www.ritron.com/pdf/pr-ccradio.pdf

http://www.masstransitmag.com/web/on...-Rating/1$7023

Bolding/emphasis mine.

Ritron Inc. announced recently that it has received an AAR rating as per AAR S-5702 section 3.2.4 for shock and vibration.

According to Ritron’s president, W. Stephen Rice, “A locomotive radio is very a specialized niche radio project and exactly the type Ritron excels at. Using our combined strengths of RF design, mechanical engineering and manufacturing capabilities we believe Ritron has an exceptional product at a very competitive price.”

The Ritron Locomotive Radio is available in both one-piece and two-piece remote head models. It features adjustable RF transmit power output of 10-50 Watts, is capable of Wideband (25 kHz) or Narrowband (12.5 kHz) operation, and is upgradeable to NXDN FDMA 6.25 kHz digital operation with optional plug-in PCB. The unit will support data operation with optional plug-in modem. It’s large, bright LED display is easy-to-read and offers automatic dimming in low light environments. The LED display also provides an Automatic High VSWR Alert. The large protected speaker provides loud, crisp audio and the rugged all-metal enclosure provides maximum durability. The radio is covered by a 2-year manufacturer’s limited warranty.

“The locomotive radio has been a ground-up design effort by our engineering staff and their hard work is really paying off, we’re getting rave reviews from our customers,” states Mr. Rice. “Unlike other existing suppliers, it does not use a modified mobile radio as the RF platform, even though Ritron designs and manufactures mobile radios. The RCCR features a radio optimized “specifically” for operation in the railroad frequency band, which means better performance for the customer.” “We’re extremely proud that the entire RCCR radio is designed, manufactured and supported by our factory in Carmel, Indiana USA”.

I guess someone is really pushing NXDN to be the railroad digital voice standard.

Should be interesting to see how many of these get purchased and how well they hold up, since Ritron generally has a reputation for making crap radios.

[Josh]

There are currently only two offerings on the table, the GE model, which doesn't do digital at all, and the JEM radio- which is decidedly a piece of crap, but has a Kenwood mobile radio inside which does NXDN stuff.

RailCom (makers of the railscan antenna for $76) has a contribution for short-lines and regional railroads using a Motorola CDM1250 in an Astron desktop base... which isn't really much a contribution since it doesn't follow the "clean cab" standard at all.

Yes, it seems that NXDN is being pushed... have you seen any of kenwood's advertisements in progressive railroading magazine? I think the push is by Kenwood primarily, but maybe they think its a more worthwhile venture as the only radio capable of IMBE digital was the Motorola Astro Spectra Locomotive radio, which has been out of production since 2006. Since either IMBE wasn't something that other manufacturers wanted to make a move toward in the railroad arena, or because railroads were not interested in switching to it, Motorola took offense and bowed out of the market, after however many decades of mfg railroad radio equipment.

So, all you have left is, of course analog, and NXDN/AMBE digital, which sounds nasal and probably doesn't hold up the noisy RR environment any better than IMBE would.

If Ritron is making a unit that has a plug-in chip, maybe the attention should be on how many of those they sell as analog radios are probably still going to remain the mainstay for railroad radio communications, unless all railroads make the conversion- as locomotive frequently travel on foreign lines, etc.

[joekansas]

I work for the UP, and I wish they'd stick with motorolas'. They have taken a beating and I have no problems with them. Plenty of volume and about indestructable. The railroads biggest problem is with antennas. If someone is having radio problems, it is because the antenna coax has had the pl259 pulled off and jammed back on, or the coax has been crushed in a cabinet door . That is the only radio trouble I ever witness.

Most of the hand microphones are in bad shape, and guys get mad when the don't work, so they just take a knife and cut the cord and throw the thing out the window. No one around to fix them, anyway. Lots of the conductors carry a known good mic if they want to actually use one and take it off at the end of the trip.
There is a rule out there stating the company is required to provide a mic for the conductors side of the cab on each and every train. That rule lasted about as long as it took the ink to dry on it.

When there are problems on an engine, you are on your own. They have no one left on the property who gives a crap about if your having radio trouble or not. Those days are over. Use your damn cell phone if you need to call the dispatcher.

Sometimes we get an engine with a new radio in it, it isn't motorola- I know it starts with an "N"- Nextel or Nex something. They have adjustable squelch- which we don't need. My biggest problem with that brand of radio is that when you have been listening to some broadcast from a person who talks quietly and you've turned the volume up wide open so you can hear them in your noisy engine cab, then the next person who talks is way louder- You scramble to turn the volume back down because it is blowing your eardrums out but unfortunately the volume up/down function is disabled while the radio is receiving a transmission. Just frickin great. In my estimation, that makes those radios a Piece-o-Shi±.

Seems like this companies motto, as far as radios go, is "If it's not broke, we'll fix it til it is".

As far as handhelds go, they had motorola ht600, then mt1000, and finally the ht1000's. When you got hired and got your radio, you had to have the radio man be sure the radio you got was programmed with all the freq's that you'd possibly need for the areas you were required to cover. He's got this ancient desktop computer (looks like it would be a few steps above a Commodor 64 computer!!!) with a programming cable he hooks it to, and he plods along asking what you wanna talk on.... you tell him we switch on channel 38- he's got all the freq's memorized, so he just types in.....160.680 tx.......160.680 rx.... and off you go!
Now, the motorola is vanishing. They are giving out some sort of little Kenwood now, with all railroad frequencies programmed in I am told. It has a small screen on the front which tells you what channel you are on. All you have to do is be smarter than the radio to figure out how to get it to that channel. On an average trip over the road in this part of the country, we talk on at least 3 different channels.
I am an engineer so I don't rate a walkie anymore, but I can tell you that Kenwoods seem to be a P.O.S. radio- the battery doesn't hold a charge long, and they have a piss poor transmit range. I don't know exactly what the radio model numbers are. This is just my two cents for all you RR railroad fans

[Josh]

Well, there's nothing stopping UP, or any other railroad from purchasing Motorola portable radios. Unlike the clean-cab units which are more or less a specialty item, portables are not. But I would think that because UP/BNSF, etc, is buying JEM radios with the NXDN Kenwood radio inside that they should build a fleet of the same brand.

Motorola makes the HT1250, which a number of railroads use (Amtrak seems to have been a big buyer). It has 128 channels, enough for all AAR channels. Unfortunately that's about it because the more rugged stuff with more channels is limited to the Astro line, which is built tough, but very expensive as it's made to support digital, trunking, encryption and a load of other things the railroads don't need/use, perhaps the railroad police, but that's it.

I bet Kenwood has an array of analog-only 100+ channel radios, and that's why they became the choice. Moto should do a bit more catering to railroads like they used to, but if what that Ritron ad says is true (how RRs don't purchase many units), then maybe it's better left alone.

[wbigcount]

Originally Posted by joekansas

I work for the UP, and I wish they'd stick with motorolas'. They have taken a beating and I have no problems with them. Plenty of volume and about indestructable. The railroads biggest problem is with antennas. If someone is having radio problems, it is because the antenna coax has had the pl259 pulled off and jammed back on, or the coax has been crushed in a cabinet door . That is the only radio trouble I ever witness.

Most of the hand microphones are in bad shape, and guys get mad when the don't work, so they just take a knife and cut the cord and throw the thing out the window. No one around to fix them, anyway. Lots of the conductors carry a known good mic if they want to actually use one and take it off at the end of the trip.
There is a rule out there stating the company is required to provide a mic for the conductors side of the cab on each and every train. That rule lasted about as long as it took the ink to dry on it.

When there are problems on an engine, you are on your own. They have no one left on the property who gives a crap about if your having radio trouble or not. Those days are over. Use your damn cell phone if you need to call the dispatcher.

Sometimes we get an engine with a new radio in it, it isn't motorola- I know it starts with an "N"- Nextel or Nex something. They have adjustable squelch- which we don't need. My biggest problem with that brand of radio is that when you have been listening to some broadcast from a person who talks quietly and you've turned the volume up wide open so you can hear them in your noisy engine cab, then the next person who talks is way louder- You scramble to turn the volume back down because it is blowing your eardrums out but unfortunately the volume up/down function is disabled while the radio is receiving a transmission. Just frickin great. In my estimation, that makes those radios a Piece-o-Shi±.

Seems like this companies motto, as far as radios go, is "If it's not broke, we'll fix it til it is".

As far as handhelds go, they had motorola ht600, then mt1000, and finally the ht1000's. When you got hired and got your radio, you had to have the radio man be sure the radio you got was programmed with all the freq's that you'd possibly need for the areas you were required to cover. He's got this ancient desktop computer (looks like it would be a few steps above a Commodor 64 computer!!!) with a programming cable he hooks it to, and he plods along asking what you wanna talk on.... you tell him we switch on channel 38- he's got all the freq's memorized, so he just types in.....160.680 tx.......160.680 rx.... and off you go!
Now, the motorola is vanishing. They are giving out some sort of little Kenwood now, with all railroad frequencies programmed in I am told. It has a small screen on the front which tells you what channel you are on. All you have to do is be smarter than the radio to figure out how to get it to that channel. On an average trip over the road in this part of the country, we talk on at least 3 different channels.
I am an engineer so I don't rate a walkie anymore, but I can tell you that Kenwoods seem to be a P.O.S. radio- the battery doesn't hold a charge long, and they have a piss poor transmit range. I don't know exactly what the radio model numbers are. This is just my two cents for all you RR railroad fans

Very true, the newer cab radios suck big time. The biggest problem in the cab is that the conductor side speakers and mike jacks never work and UP will not fix them, so u end up standing over the engineer trying to talk. Cost is why they have been buying junk cab radios.

In kansas city they were giving out the MTS 2000's for several years. They are good radios with all 97 ch's and the weather ch's, its the one i have.

[RADIOGUY2002]

Their is a big push for the railroads to make the change over to 12.5 and digital to improve fleet comms, their was an article float around about it a while ago. Yea, kenwood does seem to practical in this environment un less it a tk-2180 or somthing along those lines for portable use. The cab environment I can not comment on as I not around that. I do noww their are radios out their that support nxdn and have a volume threshhold knob to adapt when someone is talking and your rx or vice versa.

But, it whats best for the contract money!!

[IrvingtonVFD43]

Originally Posted by joekansas

Sometimes we get an engine with a new radio in it, it isn't motorola- I know it starts with an "N"- Nextel or Nex something.

The type of radio you are trying to identify are called "Nexterna". Nexterna is, or I believe, is a UP affiliate, I have seen those radios in a few UP Motors and a NS Motor when they found their way into Hobson Yard.

Originally Posted by joekansas

I am an engineer so I don't rate a walkie anymore, but I can tell you that Kenwoods seem to be a P.O.S. radio- the battery doesn't hold a charge long, and they have a piss poor transmit range. I don't know exactly what the radio model numbers are. This is just my two cents for all you RR railroad fans

I had a Kenwood TK-280, you are right about the battery life, could be much better. Went dead while I was pulling pins one night at Gibson Yard in Omaha.

Range on my portable was actually excellent. I once toned up BNSF Fremont, Ne tower from about 15 miles from the tower, got an acknowledgement tone, and cleared a track warrant with it without problems, that was standing outside. Of couse my Hogger wondered why I just didn't use the Moto Cab Radio.

[N9NRA]

Originally Posted by joekansas

I work for the UP, and I wish they'd stick with motorolas'. They have taken a beating and I have no problems with them. Plenty of volume and about indestructable. The railroads biggest problem is with antennas. If someone is having radio problems, it is because the antenna coax has had the pl259 pulled off and jammed back on, or the coax has been crushed in a cabinet door . That is the only radio trouble I ever witness.

Most of the hand microphones are in bad shape, and guys get mad when the don't work, so they just take a knife and cut the cord and throw the thing out the window. No one around to fix them, anyway. Lots of the conductors carry a known good mic if they want to actually use one and take it off at the end of the trip.
There is a rule out there stating the company is required to provide a mic for the conductors side of the cab on each and every train. That rule lasted about as long as it took the ink to dry on it.

When there are problems on an engine, you are on your own. They have no one left on the property who gives a crap about if your having radio trouble or not. Those days are over. Use your damn cell phone if you need to call the dispatcher.

Sometimes we get an engine with a new radio in it, it isn't motorola- I know it starts with an "N"- Nextel or Nex something. They have adjustable squelch- which we don't need. My biggest problem with that brand of radio is that when you have been listening to some broadcast from a person who talks quietly and you've turned the volume up wide open so you can hear them in your noisy engine cab, then the next person who talks is way louder- You scramble to turn the volume back down because it is blowing your eardrums out but unfortunately the volume up/down function is disabled while the radio is receiving a transmission. Just frickin great. In my estimation, that makes those radios a Piece-o-Shi±.

Seems like this companies motto, as far as radios go, is "If it's not broke, we'll fix it til it is".

As far as handhelds go, they had motorola ht600, then mt1000, and finally the ht1000's. When you got hired and got your radio, you had to have the radio man be sure the radio you got was programmed with all the freq's that you'd possibly need for the areas you were required to cover. He's got this ancient desktop computer (looks like it would be a few steps above a Commodor 64 computer!!!) with a programming cable he hooks it to, and he plods along asking what you wanna talk on.... you tell him we switch on channel 38- he's got all the freq's memorized, so he just types in.....160.680 tx.......160.680 rx.... and off you go!
Now, the motorola is vanishing. They are giving out some sort of little Kenwood now, with all railroad frequencies programmed in I am told. It has a small screen on the front which tells you what channel you are on. All you have to do is be smarter than the radio to figure out how to get it to that channel. On an average trip over the road in this part of the country, we talk on at least 3 different channels.
I am an engineer so I don't rate a walkie anymore, but I can tell you that Kenwoods seem to be a P.O.S. radio- the battery doesn't hold a charge long, and they have a piss poor transmit range. I don't know exactly what the radio model numbers are. This is just my two cents for all you RR railroad fans

Hey there, as to the name of that radio that starts with the letter "N", i do believe that is a "Nexterna" radio, i recall seeing a post about one shortly after i became a member of this community, and the gist of the post was that they weren`t all that good. Got a question that`s been nagging at me ever since i started reading posts about the Railroad playing around with P25. If they were to go P25 digital, what would beome of the present system used to call the dispatcher? Currently they use a touch-tone system, and i was kinda curious, how would that work once they implement a digital system? Thanks! N9NRA

[seligman]

Originally Posted by N9NRA

Hey there, as to the name of that radio that starts with the letter "N", i do believe that is a "Nexterna" radio, i recall seeing a post about one shortly after i became a member of this community, and the gist of the post was that they weren`t all that good. Got a question that`s been nagging at me ever since i started reading posts about the Railroad playing around with P25. If they were to go P25 digital, what would beome of the present system used to call the dispatcher? Currently they use a touch-tone system, and i was kinda curious, how would that work once they implement a digital system? Thanks! N9NRA

I think you're talking about NXDN, not P25. This pretty much confirms everything I've heard from inside sources: The Falcon Forum: AAR moving forward with 6.25 kHz standard

Union Pacific is getting Icom F3161 handhelds and F5061 mobiles that are 6.25 kHz capable using an add-on module.

Also, BNSF has a NXDN pilot program in the Seattle area. The license was issued last week. Frequencies are 160.245 (input) and 161.220 (output), setup as a repeater.

[alphabravo1]

Found this through google...
is this the right radio?

EFJohnson Chosen to Supply Radio Control Units to Nexterna. (31-MAY-01) PR Newswire

[radioman2001]

I don't know about a Ritron, sounds like the old Aerotron's ALPHA, a piece of junk. The GE 12RII is a Kenwood mobile chassis, with a GE manufactured power amp,and power supply with a VERY custom programmed Rabbit Technology CPU. There are 2 of them in the radio, one for the display board and the other for the RF portion. Not a bad radio, Have about 40 of them were are putting in. They are upgradedable, but I think they are worth the expense of doing to go digital. And yes unfortunately AAR has put all their eggs in the Kenwood NXDN basket. I hate propriatary systems.

[joekansas]

I was just on a BN engine the other day, and it had one of the GE 12R~series II radios in it. That is the first one I've ever noticed.

Got on another engine and I noticed when I changed channels, I saw the message on the little screen mentioned the words "AAR Narrow". I'd never seen that before, either. Didn't pay any attention to what kind of radio it was. It was on a BN engine, though. I catch them all the time.

[searchrescueff]

Originally Posted by joekansas

.... Use your damn cell phone if you need to call the dispatcher. ....

Now, the motorola is vanishing. They are giving out some sort of little Kenwood now, with all railroad frequencies programmed in I am told. It has a small screen on the front which tells you what channel you are on. All you have to do is be smarter than the radio to figure out how to get it to that channel. On an average trip over the road in this part of the country, we talk on at least 3 different channels.
I am an engineer so I don't rate a walkie anymore, but I can tell you that Kenwoods seem to be a P.O.S. radio- the battery doesn't hold a charge long, and they have a piss poor transmit range. I don't know exactly what the radio model numbers are. This is just my two cents for all you RR railroad fans

The railroad I work for (RJ Corman) has banned the use of cell phones UNLESS you are not in switching operations and are not on any part of a train or locomotive. And if you are in the locomotive, you can't have a cell phone turned on. THEREFORE, you pretty well must be on break or something and be standing on the ground to be doing anything with your phone.

And as far as the Kenwood's go, I have a Kenwood that I use not only for firefighting, but for my RR work and I have to say that it is the best radio being used. As far as the radios we have at work to use, you pretty well have to yell into them to be heard by the engineer. Not mine. Talk like their right beside you and you'll be heard. The only thing hindering my transmit range is a bent antenna (I've had this radio for 4 years, give me a break... surprised it ain't broke by now) and it being a stubby. And my battery lasts me an entire shift and then some.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking /\/\otorola's... they were the best thing around back in the day (and darn near the only thing). They just don't make them like they use to in my opinion.

Originally Posted by joekansas

I was just on a BN engine the other day, and it had one of the GE 12R~series II radios in it. That is the first one I've ever noticed.

Got on another engine and I noticed when I changed channels, I saw the message on the little screen mentioned the words "AAR Narrow". I'd never seen that before, either. Didn't pay any attention to what kind of radio it was. It was on a BN engine, though. I catch them all the time.

I would say like everything else in the two-way radio world, the AAR is having to re-band it's frequency lists as well to comply with narrow-banding.

[RADIOGUY2002]

Originally Posted by seligman

I think you're talking about NXDN, not P25. This pretty much confirms everything I've heard from inside sources: The Falcon Forum: AAR moving forward with 6.25 kHz standard

Union Pacific is getting Icom F3161 handhelds and F5061 mobiles that are 6.25 kHz capable using an add-on module.

Also, BNSF has a NXDN pilot program in the Seattle area. The license was issued last week. Frequencies are 160.245 (input) and 161.220 (output), setup as a repeater.

I think that is a rather smart move, as they are expandable via db-25 connector and or a insert borad for the 6.25 khz step. The only thing is that is an issue is nx-edge systems working with icom on the nxdn format between the 6.25 / 12.5 steps. It works with one of the formats, but not the other. See additional post by NXDN-Rich in the Icom fourm.

Overall I think UP made a smart decision in choosing the IC-F5061's and the IC-F3161's as they are a pretty close comparison to Motorola radios. Also, they can be FPP which is a huge advantage to the rail industry as we all know.

[joekansas]

I've got Motorolas' HT600, MT1000, HT1000 handhelds. 6, 16, and 16 channel respectively. I carry them to work and use them occaisionally for communication there. Mainly as a backup in case I have to be off the engine and away from the big radio. The HT unit I had programmed with the railroad freq.s we use, and also local law enforcment freqs. to allow me to use it as a scanner while at home. The MT units are only RR programmed.

My usual conductor has his railroad issued Kenwood handheld. I have no clue what the model number is. He carries it in his back pocket when he is out doing his thing. My trains are always about a mile and a quarter long. If he is near the back of the train, I can't hear him on the engine radio. He has to get the unit out of his pocket and hold it up to enable me to pick him up.

I can say for sure that when they all carried the MT1000's or HT 1000's, it was uncommon to have reception problems. Lots of the men with the MT units used the dangling coax style of antenna- the "leaky coax". It allowed them to carry the radio in their back pocket and still get out. Those style of antennas' are ancient history around this part of the RR, except for one lone survivor on a switchmans' MT. Even the MT style handhelds are a dying breed. Lucky for us, our RR office has a radio man who can still program all of these. If the RR changes channels locally (which they do on occasion), we just carry them in to his office and he attaches them to this old-style computer and reprograms them on the spot! It reminds me of some old Commodore-64 computer.

[KE7JFF]

I want to see something from AAR that says "Yes, we want NXDN!"

[icom1020]

The radio man is using a slower processor computer. I have to keep a 486 to program some of mine in DOS. I've been impressed with the the HT and MTS radios. I can talk simplex 5-10 miles easily to a mobile. Digital simplex is going to be problematic. Narrowbanding for sure, first. I wouldn't worry about the move from analog yet.

[KE7JFF]

Originally Posted by icom1020

The radio man is using a slower processor computer. I have to keep a 486 to program some of mine in DOS. I've been impressed with the the HT and MTS radios. I can talk simplex 5-10 miles easily to a mobile. Digital simplex is going to be problematic. Narrowbanding for sure, first. I wouldn't worry about the move from analog yet.

A few months ago, I did a 20 mile simplex conversation in P25.

[RADIOGUY2002]

Yea, I not a huge supporter of certain Kenwood Models, I tell you that right now. But, then again I used the old stuff and I have the new stuff. Old Motorola in a heart beat, new Motorola no way. But, old Motorola can not support narrow band and that's kinda the problem. The reasons for supporting the mic's with the antenna connector on the top of them. That was a semi-solution to leaky coax, the other issues here is dying batteries that do not put out the full 5 watts when they need too, band conditions, obstacles in what your transporting that cause interference the list goes on and on. And narrow band is coming, but not as fast as its made out to be 2013, were in 2009. That's gives you about 3-1/2 to 4 years to be in place. I think its better to be ready to go and have it in place then dragging your feet on it.

This is going to hurt a lot of companies that use two way radios and have some out dated radios, ironically it makes it easier to create shared technologies tho on some platform. I known of one such property that utilizes mt500's and their going to need to be replaced for it to work. Not to mention that their license is going to have be modified to show 12.5 otherwise its going to get flagged for review. The other radios their have an abundant amount of are p1225's and if my memory servers me right those can be switch to 12.5 But, the programming cost are going to astronomical by comparison, some 25 p1225's that need to get re-programmed and then a another 10 cp200's and that's just one department of this property. Then the repeaters are going to need to be replaced because they do not support 12.5, that is huge slap in the face.

In any case I can't wait to see the changes and how badly this is going to aggravate people. I guess I jump into this at the right time, because all my stuff is 12.5 ready. The stuff that is not has been pulled from service and my license supports 12.5, so now I am getting ready for the migration to 6.25, but I have a feeling that's a long way down the road,

[seligman]

Personally, I think NXDN is totally unnecessary. The railroads will do fine with 12.5 kHz analog anyway.